Coronavirus Hysteria

CCarter

If they cease to believe in u, do u even exist?
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You know what I can't understand - the spreading of lies and misinformation. There are those that are in it for pure profit. I'll admit I'm one of them.

But then there are those that want to see the world economy come to a halt - and then what? What's the plan afterwards? Eventually it's going to start back up, but what's the point of the people in their mom's basement spreading crazy nonsense everywhere and starting panics, when there is no profit motive?

At least there should be some sort of profit motive, that I can understand.

So the fear-mongers got their wish - the world economy has come to a standstill. Now what? I'm over here buying stock, so you know what I'm up to. But what THEY up to?

Everyone outside of Florida doesn't even have toilet paper. What have you gained?

Something to consider - I've lived in Florida a long time. I've been through hundreds of hurricanes. Staying in doors for 2 days, then having to stay in doors for 3 more days cause you have no gas, or there is debris on the roads so you can't even drive - that's nothing new to someone that's been through a hurricane.

However 5 days - MAX. Floridians can handle that. The rest of the USA or the world? No chance. Because they have the option to get in their car and drive. There is no road debris forcing them to stay inside.

So use that logic and ask yourself if people are really going to stay inside for 5 days, 14 days, or 2 months? GTFOH

People are going to go mad and just say "fuck that". Italy might have some self-control, but Americans do not.

Anyone thinking people are going to grow willpower and "self-quarantine" is giving way too much credit to humans. Remember these same people are fighting over toilet paper.

Toilet Paper.
 

bernard

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So the fear-mongers got their wish - the world economy has come to a standstill. Now what? I'm over here buying stock, so you know what I'm up to. But what THEY up to?
I'm not a fear monger, but I've had the desire for several things for a long time:

Lower rental cost
Lower real estate prices to buy
Less foreigners in my country
Less reliance on the EU and other international organisations

The corona crisis is going to deliver on all these. The huge cost of the corona recovery will lead to the first real talks about what kind of society we want and who we want to pay for in the public sector. Things are going to change. If I make it through, I'll buy property. A rental, vacation house, or maybe a small farm.
 

eliquid

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The test kits are pretty accurate, but I'm sure there are false positive and positive negatives. However the US is poorly prepared overall.

Well, everyone thought cigarettes were not harmful. Everyone thought asbestos was a great cheap material; it's been used for thousands of years. Neither were a lie that doctors invented. I'm not saying to trust every doctor - but I'd trust a doctor more than a random person who have done their own research online.

Same with lead, mercury, and probably in some years micro plastic, sedentary work and screen time will have more research, and we will all realize how stupid we were.

Most doctors, and not the doctor Jesus from Twitter above, are held to a higher standard and generally do their job at a great sacrifice and not for for fronting some conspiracy or for making money. Every doctor isn't a part of some presumed authority that are all keeping this huge lie while pretending to be sincere and lying to thousands of patients over their life. Sure, some do ... but not enough to keep such a huge conspiracy.

But I find it a bit amusing that people do their own research on Reddit and Twitter and are suddenly experts on medicine and virology. It takes 7 years of school to become a medical doctor - then more if you want to specialize ... so a week on twitter and reddit and some clickbaity Facebook posts that "have some interesting points" doesn't make a person an expert. It's usually the same people who find their own facts about immigration and vaccines, and the fact that people can spread all this junk and people actually believe it is very fascinating.
It's scary really. How can people believe that numerous independent countries, across the political spectrum, would choose to cause huge economic harm to themselves for no reason?
What's scary is the number of sheep that just do what they are told, never questioning or researching on their own. Just accepting what they are told.

Yeah, that's how Hitler took over Germany and such. I could name a lot more situations ( madoff, sharia law, etc ) where people are just do what their told and never question.. or never look into research for themselves.

So in this thread, I want to focus on people like @BCN and their argument.

Let me clarify, this is not about @BCN the person, or the avatar.. but their argument. What I am about to do is not personal or an attack, but a breaking down of their own logic on their current standing.

The test kits are pretty accurate, but I'm sure there are false positive and positive negatives.
How do you know? Do you have a 7 year degree like your doctor example and multiple year experience in checking test kits to know this personally to make this statement? More specifically do you have experience or a degree in test kits for coronavirus? What's accurate anyways for something we know nothing about that no human has ever had before? 90%, 60%, 32%?

My guess is, you just listen to someone else tell you this, that the tests are accurate. How do we know they are not broke? Maybe if you used a Flu test, it would show positive for Flu? We have no data or expert on this, so we cant make this statement.

You tell me we have tests, my government tells me we don't. Who should I trust. Wouldn't my president who is in his 70's and the leader of my government and his cabinet know more than you? Based on your logic of a doctor having 7 years experience, my president and cabinet supersedes you and any doctor on this planet because of years combined experience and position/authority.

But this is where the question comes into play. Are you right, or my president?

The only way to know is to do self research, which you and @Steve both basically put down.

But the fact is, your doctors aren't in control of any logistics for the mass prep or distribution of covid-19 test kits, so I would tend to think the information you have from doctors would be less credible than those that are in control of it, right?

Well, everyone thought cigarettes were not harmful. Everyone thought asbestos was a great cheap material; it's been used for thousands of years. Neither were a lie that doctors invented. I'm not saying to trust every doctor - but I'd trust a doctor more than a random person who have done their own research online.
That's a bit of a stretch to say everyone thought cigs, and abestos and lead were safe. Many a doctors pushed and verified safety of these materials when they were in fact not safe. So that leads to such things as doctors can either be:
  1. Paid to lie
  2. Not really know the facts
  3. Not have enough information
  4. Not care
  5. Made mistakes based on little to no information at hand
A doctor is a random person BTW. They are also not experts in anything. Most doctors don't know much and have to reference their medical reference books. Past that they are looking things up online and speaking to other doctors in the hospital or clinic. I can look in a reference book too, so does that make me a medical professional now when I self diagnose? That's what a doctor is doing and his nurse will give me a test to confirm ( which we don't have tests for COVID-19 in the USA, at least ones not accurate enough ).

In the end, a doctor is a human. Humans can be manipulated and wrong. Just because they are a doctor means diddly crap. Look at the one that injected Michael Jackson and killed him. I could name a lot of other bad ones....

Tons of random doctors out there that are just generalists in what they do and rely on reference books for everything else.

In general though, when we hat tip doctors, we are basically speaking about people in authority. Your use of college leads to that. Someone in authority because they spent 7 years at some building with fellow thinkers of the same topic.

Belief in authority is the issue here.

Someone spent 7 years at college/residency?

Wow.. slow clap to that gent.

I know people that spent 10 years to get their degree. All idiots.

You think I'm gonna let someone that did 7 years perform surgery on me? Fuck no. They ain't even worthy of taking out the polyp from my colon during my colonoscopy as they might perforate the lining.

So anyone that uses school for anything is making a very weak argument. I know people that got a Masters degree in Marketing, you think Im handing them my Google Ads and Facebook PPC campaigns... hell no.

So school is basically worthless.

Experience is where it counts, but Im about to destroy that one too in a bit later on down the post....

Now back to my colonoscopy, if this was someone that spent 7 years in school and had 40 years experience in polyp removal.. yeah I'm dropping my pants and spreading open while I go under anesthesia.

Got a criminal defense case.. Im not taking the guy with 10 years of college. Im taking the guy with 30 years of criminal defense that I also KNOW is friends with the Judge on the weekend.

Fuck school. That's not how shit is done int he real world.

So any of these doctors ( random humans that can make mistakes or not know all the info who are mostly generalists anyways with the exception of some that actually specialize ) spouting on TV about stuff I disregard. Not unless they have 30+ years in virology which I haven't seen on TV yet.

Could I have missed the 1 or 2 that did comment or go on TV, sure. I don't waste my life in front of the tube. But even then they could be wrong. I mean, we have never seen this before.

But even then, experience is shit.

Look at Apple's Ron Johnson, who helped make Apple a well known name with Apple Stores and also led Target to be "hip" and what it is today ( experience ), but came into JC Pennys and all but destroyed it into the ground.

Ron received a Bachelor of Arts degree in Economics from Stanford University and a Master of Business Administration degree from Harvard Business School. So he had the extensive schooling that a doctor has, plus he got the schooling from pretty much the best universities possible.

His education and prior experience led him to all kinds of mistakes at JC Penny and pretty much bankrupted a company.

I could list more examples of experience not helping but I don't want to write all night here on this post. You think all those employees believed their "authority" would keep their jobs safe at JC Penny? What about all the stock holders of JC Penny?

No different that your doctor example. People look to doctors ( falsely ) as authority figures for the same reason you pointed out.. schooling ( and also what you didn't point out on SOME doctors, experience ). But at the end of the day, Ron was a human like a doctor. Just a random person with a piece of paper and experience that ended drastically.

So knowing all of this, what's a person left to do? If someone like Ron or a doctor can make a grave mistake with all their schooling and experience, and I could too as a lay person.. where is the safe bet? With me, of course.

I'll tell you why....

When schooling and experience don't lead to success, the only thing left to do is to research things on your own. At least you can specifically research the exact need you have and get the specifics you need. Whereas a doctor 5 months ago would have just sent your ass home with medication for the flu because they are a generalist that doesn't know what's going on because they have never seen this and did not take the time to research and look things up for you specifically while you were in their office. Leading you to go home and die.

No thanks bruh.

Side story, I've paid a ton of money to CPA's, bookkeepers, and tax attorneys all over my state over the last 13 years. Tax attorneys that worked at the IRS and have degrees and experience.

I've ran circles. CIRCLES around them with business formation and tax issues. I'd go to them with need for X Y or Z only to be ran around multiple times from everyone I used. I had to research in the tax code myself and look up issues myself talking to other business people online to find the right and correct answers that even the people I paid with degrees and experience didn't know.

Why?

Because I cared about MY issue. I had an exact issue I needed specific info on.

The CPA's, bookkeepers, and tax attorneys are just generalist with many clients. No different than a doctor with patients. They look up info in the tax code, just like a doctor with medical reference guides. They are too busy, or make errors, or use their own judgement without verifying.. but not me.

I, the person that looks shit up online and asks around to other professionals and research in-depth , care about me and my issue. I know exactly what I need to look up and what I don't know.

No one is going to know more than me, when I care about something.

Too many doctors have mis-diagnosed. Too many lawyers have mis-represented. Too many scientists have gotten shit wrong. Too many teachers have wrongly taught history that was not accurate. Too many people in authority in government have mis-used their power.

In the end, what ties these people all together are they are human. They make mistakes. They can be manipulated. Most of them know nothing anyways. But no one will care really, not like I will care.

That's why my research, no matter how I get it, trumps all.


But I find it a bit amusing that people do their own research on Reddit and Twitter and are suddenly experts on medicine and virology. It takes 7 years of school to become a medical doctor - then more if you want to specialize ... so a week on twitter and reddit and some clickbaity Facebook posts that "have some interesting points" doesn't make a person an expert. It's usually the same people who find their own facts about immigration and vaccines, and the fact that people can spread all this junk and people actually believe it is very fascinating.
yeah, and 7 years of school doesn't make anyone an expert either. Neither does 30 years experience.

But I bet you my right and left nut that when someone cares about their own issues, they find the answer to problems doctors, lawyers, teachers, and even presidents don't even know about.

7 years of school isn't shit. I should know, because I've hired a lot of idiots with that level of schooling and I've spent millions of dollars funneling adults into lead gen problems for some of the top schools in the nation off Google and Facebook.. like sheep to the slaughter house.
 
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BCN

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I make money on it too - being an affiliate marketer. I make money on a lot of misery, obesity, fear, overconsumption etc. I just ride the waves of whatever works.

Not everything is about money, some of us have kids, and generally don't want people to die or see the world burn. I already make enough money, own a house and most stuff I want. I can deal with less income for a few months (but hasn't happened) if that's what it takes to not wipe out a lot of old, poor or other people in the risk zone ... or just unlucky people.

The quarantine as much as it sucks (I've been in quarantine for a while, before it got cool). I'm used to it though as I've been working on ships for years, and on there you're isolated too.

I guess Americans (and I mean no offence with this, it's just an observation), don't care as much due to ignorance, or lack of a world view beyond US borders. Probably there's too much materialism and too little love for your neighbors, and if it won't kill you, you don't care.

What's scary is the number of sheep that just do what they are told, never questioning or researching on their own. Just accepting what they are told.

Yeah, that's how Hitler took over Germany and such. I could name a lot more situations ( madoff, sharia law, etc ) where people are just do what their told and never question.. or never look into research for themselves.

So in this thread, I want to focus on people like @BCN and their argument.

Let me clarify, this is not about @BCN the person, or the avatar.. but their argument. What I am about to do is not personal or an attack, but a breaking down of their own logic on their current standing.



How do you know? Do you have a 7 year degree like your doctor example and multiple year experience in checking test kits to know this personally to make this statement? More specifically do you have experience or a degree in test kits for coronavirus? What's accurate anyways for something we know nothing about that no human has ever had before? 90%, 60%, 32%?

My guess is, you just listen to someone else tell you this, that the tests are accurate. How do we know they are not broke? Maybe if you used a Flu test, it would show positive for Flu? We have no data or expert on this, so we cant make this statement.

You tell me we have tests, my government tells me we don't. Who should I trust. Wouldn't my president who is in his 70's and the leader of my government and his cabinet know more than you? Based on your logic of a doctor having 7 years experience, my president and cabinet supersedes you and any doctor on this planet because of years combined experience and position/authority.

But this is where the question comes into play. Are you right, or my president?

The only way to know is to do self research, which you and @Steve both basically put down.

But the fact is, your doctors aren't in control of any logistics for the mass prep or distribution of covid-19 test kits, so I would tend to think the information you have from doctors would be less credible than those that are in control of it, right?



That's a bit of a stretch to say everyone thought cigs, and abestos and lead were safe. Many a doctors pushed and verified safety of these materials when they were in fact not safe. So that leads to such things as doctors can either be:
  1. Paid to lie
  2. Not really know the facts
  3. Not have enough information
  4. Not care
  5. Made mistakes based on little to no information at hand
A doctor is a random person BTW. They are also not experts in anything. Most doctors don't know much and have to reference their medical reference books. Past that they are looking things up online and speaking to other doctors in the hospital or clinic. I can look in a reference book too, so does that make me a medical professional now when I self diagnose? That's what a doctor is doing and his nurse will give me a test to confirm ( which we don't have tests for COVID-19 in the USA, at least ones not accurate enough ).

In the end, a doctor is a human. Humans can be manipulated and wrong. Just because they are a doctor means diddly crap. Look at the one that injected Michael Jackson and killed him. I could name a lot of other bad ones....

Tons of random doctors out there that are just generalists in what they do and rely on reference books for everything else.

In general though, when we hat tip doctors, we are basically speaking about people in authority. Your use of college leads to that. Someone in authority because they spent 7 years at some building with fellow thinkers of the same topic.

Belief in authority is the issue here.

Someone spent 7 years at college/residency?

Wow.. slow clap to that gent.

I know people that spent 10 years to get their degree. All idiots.

You think I'm gonna let someone that did 7 years perform surgery on me? Fuck no. They ain't even worthy of taking out the polyp from my colon during my colonoscopy as they might perforate the lining.

So anyone that uses school for anything is making a very weak argument. I know people that got a Masters degree in Marketing, you think Im handing them my Google Ads and Facebook PPC campaigns... hell no.

So school is basically worthless.

Experience is where it counts, but Im about to destroy that one too in a bit later on down the post....

Now back to my colonoscopy, if this was someone that spent 7 years in school and had 40 years experience in polyp removal.. yeah I'm dropping my pants and spreading open while I go under anesthesia.

Got a criminal defense case.. Im not taking the guy with 10 years of college. Im taking the guy with 30 years of criminal defense that I also KNOW is friends with the Judge on the weekend.

Fuck school. That's not how shit is done int he real world.

So any of these doctors ( random humans that can make mistakes or not know all the info who are mostly generalists anyways with the exception of some that actually specialize ) spouting on TV about stuff I disregard. Not unless they have 30+ years in virology which I haven't seen on TV yet.

Could I have missed the 1 or 2 that did comment or go on TV, sure. I don't waste my life in front of the tube. But even then they could be wrong. I mean, we have never seen this before.

But even then, experience is shit.

Look at Apple's Ron Johnson, who helped make Apple a well known name with Apple Stores and also led Target to be "hip" and what it is today ( experience ), but came into JC Pennys and all but destroyed it into the ground.

Ron received a Bachelor of Arts degree in Economics from Stanford University and a Master of Business Administration degree from Harvard Business School. So he had the extensive schooling that a doctor has, plus he got the schooling from pretty much the best universities possible.

His education and prior experience led him to all kinds of mistakes and pretty much bankrupted a company.

I could list more examples of experience not helping but I don't want to write all night here on this post. You think all those employees believed their "authority" would keep their jobs safe? What about all the stock holders?

No different that your doctor example. People look to doctors ( falsely ) as authority figures for the same reason you pointed out.. schooling ( and also what you didn't point out on SOME doctors, experience ). But at the end of the day, Ron was a human like a doctor. Just a random person with a piece of paper and experience that ended drastically.

So nothing all of this, what's a person left to do?

When schooling and experience don't lead to success, the only thing left to do is to research things on your own. At least you can specifically research the exact need you have and get the specifics you need. Whereas a doctor 5 months ago would have just sent your ass home with medication for the flu because they are a generalist that doesn't know what's going on because they have never seen this and did not take the time to research and look things up for you specifically while you were in their office. Leading you to go home and die.

No thanks bruh.

Side story, I've paid a ton of money to CPA's, bookkeepers, and tax attorneys all over my state over the last 13 years. Tax attorneys that worked at the IRS and have degrees and experience.

I've ran circles. CIRCLES around them with business formation and tax issues. I'd go to them with need for X Y or Z only to be ran around multiple times from everyone I used. I had to research in the tax code myself and look up issues myself talking to other business people online to find the right and correct answers that even the people I paid with degrees and experience didn't know.

Why?

Because I cared about MY issue. I had an exact issue I needed specific info on.

The CPA's, bookkeepers, and tax attorneys are just generalist with many clients. No different than a doctor with patients. They look up info in the tax code, just like a doctor with medical reference guides. They are too busy, or make errors, or use their own judgement without verifying.. but not me.

I, the person that looks shit up online and asks around to other professionals and research in-depth , care about me and my issue. I know exactly what I need to look up and what I don't know.

No one is going to know more than me, when I care about something.

Too many doctors have mis-diagnosed. Too many lawyers have mis-represented. Too many scientists have gotten shit wrong. Too many teachers have wrongly taught history that was not accurate. Too many people in authority in government have mis-used their power.

In the end, what ties these people all together are they are human. They make mistakes. They can be manipulated. Most of them know nothing anyways. But no one will care really, not like I will care.

That's why my research, no matter how I get it, trumps all.




yeah, and 7 years of school doesn't make anyone an expert either. Neither does 30 years experience.

But I bet you my right and left nut that when someone cares about their own issues, they find the answer to problems doctors, lawyers, teachers, and even presidents don't even know about.

7 years of school isn't shit. I should know, because I've hired a lot of idiots with that level of schooling and I've spent millions of dollars funneling adults into lead gen problems for some of the top schools in the nation off Google and Facebook.. like sheep to the slaughter house.
Will read through it properly later, and write a proper reply as I'm on my phone right now. But regarding the test kits, I don't know about the US as I'm not American. Here, they still have them - but you're told to only call the phone number they've set up if you feel symptoms, and they will come to your house and do the tests.

The tests we do here are taken by a doctor or medical staff.
 
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I guess Americans (and I mean no offence with this, it's just an observation), don't care as much due to ignorance, or lack of a world view beyond US borders. Probably there's too much materialism and too little love for your neighbors, and if it won't kill you, you don't care.
I don't know about the US as I'm not American.
I'm glad you quickly figured out how absolutely stupid your observations in the first quote are.
 

Jared

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I don't want to delve too deep into the Paranoid Conspiracy Theorists vs. Non-Thinking Left-Wing Shills debate going on, but since the topic's come up . . .

My favorite coronavirus conspiracy by far is North Korea.

Remember this?



That was early December. Most interpreted it as a nuclear threat. But, Christmas came and went with nothing . . .



. . . or so we thought.

Pop Quiz: What happened in mid-December, after Kim Jong-un's threat, about a week before Christmas?

Answer: The coronavirus showed up in China, North Korea's neighbor.

What if North Korea's so-called Christmas gift wasn't another yawn-worthy nuclear threat, as everyone assumed, but instead a biological weapon meant to bring on global chaos, including destroying the sparkling economy that was Trump's legacy*?

North Korea has some of the most protected borders in the world (one of the few things they got right). They're one of the few countries that could contain the virus, especially with foreknowledge of its existence and behavior.

Do I believe the coronavirus came from North Korea? Not really. It being unintentionally transmitted from a lab to humans via carelessness and animal consumption seems the most likely source. That said, the North Korea theory is at least plausible enough to consider.



*among sane people; among insane people, his legacy will always be Orange Man Bad
 
Last edited:

BCN

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What's scary is the number of sheep that just do what they are told, never questioning or researching on their own. Just accepting what they are told.

Yeah, that's how Hitler took over Germany and such. I could name a lot more situations ( madoff, sharia law, etc ) where people are just do what their told and never question.. or never look into research for themselves.

So in this thread, I want to focus on people like @BCN and their argument.

Let me clarify, this is not about @BCN the person, or the avatar.. but their argument. What I am about to do is not personal or an attack, but a breaking down of their own logic on their current standing.



How do you know? Do you have a 7 year degree like your doctor example and multiple year experience in checking test kits to know this personally to make this statement? More specifically do you have experience or a degree in test kits for coronavirus? What's accurate anyways for something we know nothing about that no human has ever had before? 90%, 60%, 32%?

My guess is, you just listen to someone else tell you this, that the tests are accurate. How do we know they are not broke? Maybe if you used a Flu test, it would show positive for Flu? We have no data or expert on this, so we cant make this statement.

You tell me we have tests, my government tells me we don't. Who should I trust. Wouldn't my president who is in his 70's and the leader of my government and his cabinet know more than you? Based on your logic of a doctor having 7 years experience, my president and cabinet supersedes you and any doctor on this planet because of years combined experience and position/authority.

But this is where the question comes into play. Are you right, or my president?

The only way to know is to do self research, which you and @Steve both basically put down.

But the fact is, your doctors aren't in control of any logistics for the mass prep or distribution of covid-19 test kits, so I would tend to think the information you have from doctors would be less credible than those that are in control of it, right?



That's a bit of a stretch to say everyone thought cigs, and abestos and lead were safe. Many a doctors pushed and verified safety of these materials when they were in fact not safe. So that leads to such things as doctors can either be:
  1. Paid to lie
  2. Not really know the facts
  3. Not have enough information
  4. Not care
  5. Made mistakes based on little to no information at hand
A doctor is a random person BTW. They are also not experts in anything. Most doctors don't know much and have to reference their medical reference books. Past that they are looking things up online and speaking to other doctors in the hospital or clinic. I can look in a reference book too, so does that make me a medical professional now when I self diagnose? That's what a doctor is doing and his nurse will give me a test to confirm ( which we don't have tests for COVID-19 in the USA, at least ones not accurate enough ).

In the end, a doctor is a human. Humans can be manipulated and wrong. Just because they are a doctor means diddly crap. Look at the one that injected Michael Jackson and killed him. I could name a lot of other bad ones....

Tons of random doctors out there that are just generalists in what they do and rely on reference books for everything else.

In general though, when we hat tip doctors, we are basically speaking about people in authority. Your use of college leads to that. Someone in authority because they spent 7 years at some building with fellow thinkers of the same topic.

Belief in authority is the issue here.

Someone spent 7 years at college/residency?

Wow.. slow clap to that gent.

I know people that spent 10 years to get their degree. All idiots.

You think I'm gonna let someone that did 7 years perform surgery on me? Fuck no. They ain't even worthy of taking out the polyp from my colon during my colonoscopy as they might perforate the lining.

So anyone that uses school for anything is making a very weak argument. I know people that got a Masters degree in Marketing, you think Im handing them my Google Ads and Facebook PPC campaigns... hell no.

So school is basically worthless.

Experience is where it counts, but Im about to destroy that one too in a bit later on down the post....

Now back to my colonoscopy, if this was someone that spent 7 years in school and had 40 years experience in polyp removal.. yeah I'm dropping my pants and spreading open while I go under anesthesia.

Got a criminal defense case.. Im not taking the guy with 10 years of college. Im taking the guy with 30 years of criminal defense that I also KNOW is friends with the Judge on the weekend.

Fuck school. That's not how shit is done int he real world.

So any of these doctors ( random humans that can make mistakes or not know all the info who are mostly generalists anyways with the exception of some that actually specialize ) spouting on TV about stuff I disregard. Not unless they have 30+ years in virology which I haven't seen on TV yet.

Could I have missed the 1 or 2 that did comment or go on TV, sure. I don't waste my life in front of the tube. But even then they could be wrong. I mean, we have never seen this before.

But even then, experience is shit.

Look at Apple's Ron Johnson, who helped make Apple a well known name with Apple Stores and also led Target to be "hip" and what it is today ( experience ), but came into JC Pennys and all but destroyed it into the ground.

Ron received a Bachelor of Arts degree in Economics from Stanford University and a Master of Business Administration degree from Harvard Business School. So he had the extensive schooling that a doctor has, plus he got the schooling from pretty much the best universities possible.

His education and prior experience led him to all kinds of mistakes at JC Penny and pretty much bankrupted a company.

I could list more examples of experience not helping but I don't want to write all night here on this post. You think all those employees believed their "authority" would keep their jobs safe at JC Penny? What about all the stock holders of JC Penny?

No different that your doctor example. People look to doctors ( falsely ) as authority figures for the same reason you pointed out.. schooling ( and also what you didn't point out on SOME doctors, experience ). But at the end of the day, Ron was a human like a doctor. Just a random person with a piece of paper and experience that ended drastically.

So knowing all of this, what's a person left to do? If someone like Ron or a doctor can make a grave mistake with all their schooling and experience, and I could too as a lay person.. where is the safe bet? With me, of course.

I'll tell you why....

When schooling and experience don't lead to success, the only thing left to do is to research things on your own. At least you can specifically research the exact need you have and get the specifics you need. Whereas a doctor 5 months ago would have just sent your ass home with medication for the flu because they are a generalist that doesn't know what's going on because they have never seen this and did not take the time to research and look things up for you specifically while you were in their office. Leading you to go home and die.

No thanks bruh.

Side story, I've paid a ton of money to CPA's, bookkeepers, and tax attorneys all over my state over the last 13 years. Tax attorneys that worked at the IRS and have degrees and experience.

I've ran circles. CIRCLES around them with business formation and tax issues. I'd go to them with need for X Y or Z only to be ran around multiple times from everyone I used. I had to research in the tax code myself and look up issues myself talking to other business people online to find the right and correct answers that even the people I paid with degrees and experience didn't know.

Why?

Because I cared about MY issue. I had an exact issue I needed specific info on.

The CPA's, bookkeepers, and tax attorneys are just generalist with many clients. No different than a doctor with patients. They look up info in the tax code, just like a doctor with medical reference guides. They are too busy, or make errors, or use their own judgement without verifying.. but not me.

I, the person that looks shit up online and asks around to other professionals and research in-depth , care about me and my issue. I know exactly what I need to look up and what I don't know.

No one is going to know more than me, when I care about something.

Too many doctors have mis-diagnosed. Too many lawyers have mis-represented. Too many scientists have gotten shit wrong. Too many teachers have wrongly taught history that was not accurate. Too many people in authority in government have mis-used their power.

In the end, what ties these people all together are they are human. They make mistakes. They can be manipulated. Most of them know nothing anyways. But no one will care really, not like I will care.

That's why my research, no matter how I get it, trumps all.




yeah, and 7 years of school doesn't make anyone an expert either. Neither does 30 years experience.

But I bet you my right and left nut that when someone cares about their own issues, they find the answer to problems doctors, lawyers, teachers, and even presidents don't even know about.

7 years of school isn't shit. I should know, because I've hired a lot of idiots with that level of schooling and I've spent millions of dollars funneling adults into lead gen problems for some of the top schools in the nation off Google and Facebook.. like sheep to the slaughter house.
It's not about being a sheep, it's about a simple understanding of what it takes to do certain jobs and understanding which sources are reliable and which are not.

You're not spending 7 years in a university building reading books and then suddenly you're a doctor.

An even if you're a doctor, I've never said that you should trust every doctor. I said I trust a doctor much more than someone who have read online and think they have all the facts. Compared with someone out there who has 7 years of medical school (that's one part of being a doctor), more practical experience with patients and access to resources you can't get on Reddit or elsewhere online.

People are so obsessed with these conspiracies. Like the big bad medical industry. Do you think all doctors, or even a fraction), could keep a secret like this? A guy who cheats on his wife is likely to get caught, how about thousands of doctors keeping this big secret?

I'm all for being self-taught in different disciplines, I'm a self-taught developer, and I taught myself English. I'm not saying you need to have a PhD. in computer science or in linguistics to do any of those. But I doubt my abilities to be a self-taught surgeon, and even if I were to learn it, I doubt someone would trust me over someone with an MD education.

A regular person does not have access to the network of experts that doctors do, nor the equipment, experience with patients or anything of that. Many doctors don't give a shit and say whatever they want for money and hide behind an MD diploma - like in any industry.

From my experience people who always see the devil in anything they don't agree with, are usually people selectively picking facts to strengthen a theory they already believe.

If you don't believe in the moon landing, vaccines or any other proven concepts, events or theories, and your main source of facts are from forums, news or social media that caters specifically to fuel these conspiracies, no amount of self-research will dig you out of that hole.

I also never said to trust all authorities, in fact I'm saying the complete opposite.

Having medical school or education in a field ticks one box (you're more likely to know your shit than a random person in the street), other things such as experience and actually caring about the work, and more, are important too.

My statement is a more critical approach - since nobody really knows what this virus is, and there aren't many peer-reviewed articles on it, I'm critical, and I rather trust the doctors who at least have some experience and training in it vs some angry person online.

Anyone can say whatever they want online. Some stay at home mom with an Instagram following says vaccines give kids autism, and suddenly you have disease outbreaks in the Western world we haven't seen in decades.

So let's take the test example:

You say they are inaccurate. OK, I don't know you or your expertise.

A doctor says they are accurate enough to prevent the disease from spreading, but that there may be false positives (i.e. you have antibodies from a viral disease even after it's not active anymore). OK.

Where did you get your info from (a secondary source most likely: news article, online, Reddit, Twitter, "I heard it").

Where did the doctor get it from?

He doesn't have to be an expert in virology to be more qualified than a random person. Maybe he got it from a secondary source too, but he still has more experience in medicine, consult with experts on it, and right now the coronavirus is the talk of the town among doctors -I'm sure.

That doesn't mean that if a doctor tells me to drink Cyanide I'll do it or that the government tells me something I'll blindly do it.

One thing we can agree on though - at least - is that I share your view in general on education. Most college programs in accounting, marketing and many more, are to keep youth occupied and offer you nothing you can't learn if you want to.


I'm glad you quickly figured out how absolutely stupid your observations in the first quote are.
Did you have problems understanding it? In the first quote, I was referring to Americans (people who are born in The United States of America).

In the second I was referring to the situation with the test kit/gear/whatever being unavailable -and I don't know the situation with test kits in the US, but I know it here, and they are testing people here.
 

Jared

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Europe now 'the epicenter of the pandemic,' WHO says - NBC News

Europe's immense knowledge and infinite love for their fellow man wasn't enough to stop the continent from becoming the epicenter of the outbreak. Apparently, you can have too much love for your fellow man during a pandemic . . .

From This:


To This:
Italy reports 368 coronavirus deaths in 24 hours - Al Jazeera

If, during the early stages of a pandemic, your local politician encourages you to cuddle with nationals from the source of the outbreak for a cheap photo op, you have my permission to punch him/her in the mouth.

Political correctness at its best is silly-but-harmless egotism. At its worst, it's dangerous stupidly, which is what we've seen in Italy.
 
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eliquid

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It's not about being a sheep, it's about a simple understanding of what it takes to do certain jobs and understanding which sources are reliable and which are not.

You're not spending 7 years in a university building reading books and then suddenly you're a doctor.

An even if you're a doctor, I've never said that you should trust every doctor. I said I trust a doctor much more than someone who have read online and think they have all the facts. Compared with someone out there who has 7 years of medical school (that's one part of being a doctor), more practical experience with patients and access to resources you can't get on Reddit or elsewhere online.
The problem is, you assume me or others that do research can not understand which sources are reliable and which are not. Did you know my wife was a RN in her prior career? Do you assume I just fall for any old blog post online written by any neckbeard in their basement?

You're talking to the guy that invented one of the most blatant fake blog articles ever that helped the affiliate marketing industry make over a billion dollars of revenue here...

That's what you are saying about anyone that is not a doctor. That we are just out here falling for anything by anyone and have no discernment or judgement. That we don't have access to information that doctors have access to. But the truth is drastically different.

People are so obsessed with these conspiracies. Like the big bad medical industry. Do you think all doctors, or even a fraction), could keep a secret like this? A guy who cheats on his wife is likely to get caught, how about thousands of doctors keeping this big secret?
Why do you think that doctors even know about X Y or Z in the first place?

Pharma reps come into offices and wine and dine and 69 the doctors in an office to push their meds and tout the benefits, and the doctors play ball without so much as checking the facts. Sure they might look over the documents ( leaflets ) and then do some generic research online and see some studies, but why do you think the doctors are "now in the know"? Most of them are not, so they wouldn't know the secret to keep to begin with. You assume all the doctors know all the secrets, but in reality most of them don't. Just because Y happens, doesn't mean every doctor goes out and spends 3 weeks researching it own their own dime or gets included in some "secret circle of trust" with some highly classified info now.

How do I know? I know several ex Pharma reps. I know the stories of how they get doctors to push their meds. Most of the doctors didn't even read the info handed to them.

If they can't be bothered with that, they aren't going to know what they need to know to even keep a secret. That's IF THERE WAS A SECRET.

I am not saying there is a secret, I am punching holes in your logic so you can see that even if there was one ( I am not saying there is ) there is no reason for them to know anyhow to begin with. You are just thinking they would know, just because they are doctors.

Also, I never said it was a conspiracy. I just stated it was a sham what is being presented and for others to do their own research.


I'm all for being self-taught in different disciplines, I'm a self-taught developer, and I taught myself English. I'm not saying you need to have a PhD. in computer science or in linguistics to do any of those. But I doubt my abilities to be a self-taught surgeon, and even if I were to learn it, I doubt someone would trust me over someone with an MD education.

A regular person does not have access to the network of experts that doctors do, nor the equipment, experience with patients or anything of that. Many doctors don't give a shit and say whatever they want for money and hide behind an MD diploma - like in any industry.
You don't need access to any special network. You can interview anyone at anytime, pretty much the same as HARO. Also, you don't need equipment, but almost 95% of all medical equipment can be bought used in auctions or through vet outlets. I actually use to funnels leads and do work for a company that refurbished medical equipment from hospitals to vets and anyone could buy the equipment on the auction market. Especially if you were outside the US.

This isn't about that though, its about researching info for yourself than trusting someone just because they went to college or "have some experience". I've proven this in my prior posts.

Many doctors don't give a shit and say whatever they want for money and hide behind an MD diploma - like in any industry.
Exactly my point. Why trust one? If it comes down to a doctor that dont give a shit and say whatever and me, I think my research would suit me better than anything the doctor says.

From my experience people who always see the devil in anything they don't agree with, are usually people selectively picking facts to strengthen a theory they already believe.

If you don't believe in the moon landing, vaccines or any other proven concepts, events or theories, and your main source of facts are from forums, news or social media that caters specifically to fuel these conspiracies, no amount of self-research will dig you out of that hole.
I don't see the devil in everything. I havent seen anyone else state that either really here. Not sure where you got this.

I also don't see where anyone else said they got their info from forums or blatant un-authoritative 3rd party sources.

If someone does self research and doesn't have discernment or a proper way to do research, they deserve whatever bad stuff comes from it. But this is not that.

I also never said to trust all authorities, in fact I'm saying the complete opposite.

Having medical school or education in a field ticks one box (you're more likely to know your shit than a random person in the street), other things such as experience and actually caring about the work, and more, are important too.
You assume it ticks a box, because you are under the belief that people that go to a college or university somehow "know more". This might have been true 50 years ago, but not today. You are rehashing something that another person or system put into your head.

This system of belief is flawed in so many examples though. Again, I spend millions funneling people into the education system. I have a background in this. I've also hired people with advanced degrees and most of them can not perform the jobs they went to school for.

Also, what if you're the doctor that graduated very bottom, barely passing? Yeah, not going to trust them on anything. The school tick box thought has a lot of holes in it in general.


My statement is a more critical approach - since nobody really knows what this virus is, and there aren't many peer-reviewed articles on it, I'm critical, and I rather trust the doctors who at least have some experience and training in it vs some angry person online.
Who's angry though?

Anyone can say whatever they want online. Some stay at home mom with an Instagram following says vaccines give kids autism, and suddenly you have disease outbreaks in the Western world we haven't seen in decades.
You do understand that this autism example you gave, was started by a British surgeon? This person eventually was proved un-credible, but the seed was sown that the medical community could be un-reliable, wrong, and corrupt. Studies have proven unsuccessful in replicating autism, but then again how do we know doctors or the medical community are doing things correctly to even prove vaccines don't?

Especially with finding like this that say most medical and scientific studies are shams? https://phys.org/news/2018-07-beware-scientific-studiesmost-wrong.html

There is a proven history of poorly done studies in the medical field that are bogus. Here is another article about it - https://nypost.com/2017/05/06/medical-studies-are-almost-always-bogus/

Give me some time, I can pull up more credible ones. It's getting late though and I need some more time, but this is a start on how many studies just can not be replicated to prove correct, bad OR good.

So while you may stand on grounds that doctors do this and that, I stand on the grounds much of their research seems bogus and made up. While you discredit vaccines and autism link, I discredit the follow up tests as doctors can either be:
  1. Paid to lie
  2. Not really know the facts
  3. Not have enough information
  4. Not care
  5. Made mistakes based on little to no information at hand
And have practiced in sloppy and poorly document follow up studies to disprove it.

So let's take the test example:

You say they are inaccurate. OK, I don't know you or your expertise.

A doctor says they are accurate enough to prevent the disease from spreading, but that there may be false positives (i.e. you have antibodies from a viral disease even after it's not active anymore). OK.

Where did you get your info from (a secondary source most likely: news article, online, Reddit, Twitter, "I heard it").

Where did the doctor get it from?
I got it directly from the US government - President and his cabinet.

Your doctor got it from, who knows. For sure the doctor is not an expert in testing kits for coronavirus though. Neither is my president though. But if we use your logic of education and experience/authority, surely my government beats out your doctor?

If not, what are we left with. Self research, right?

He doesn't have to be an expert in virology to be more qualified than a random person. Maybe he got it from a secondary source too, but he still has more experience in medicine, consult with experts on it, and right now the coronavirus is the talk of the town among doctors -I'm sure.
Under this logic, my local home builder doesn't have to an expert in plumbing to be more qualified about a sewer leak under my house than a random person. You think Im gonna trust his advice over a random PLUMBER I found online? A plumber I talked to and surveyed myself about the issue? One I found on Youtube maybe that did a video on my specific issue and problem? How about a random person I talked to whose brother has been a plumber for 40 years and asked for me? What if it was the governing body of home builders that has a cabinet of people that I talked to?

Using generic people doesn't make sense here. No one ever mentioned ( me ) that I talked to random people about virology or my results. You don't have to be Chief of Staff of the Mayo Clinic to ask someone "do you personally know anyone infected with the coronavirus" which is how my post began.

About the only issue I brought up that would need such an authority to answer would have been me bringing up the "no tests in the USA" and the "not accurate statement". Both of which came directly from the US government. You really can't get much more qualified unless you discredit the government. At that point you're back to my original statement of self research.
 
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EyesExist

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Why is this post even going on?

This forum is filled with empowered people.

We should be joining forces to launch a FUCKING super power household brand name that kills this fucking virus.

A GREAT THOUGHT , that's SUPER SMART but i know there's IQ chinks exposed when people laugh at such notions of joining forces... like we can't be a "United States of the Web" when it comes to such things.

We could put our powers in dominating search for "BUSO BUDDIES" brand.

Home care products: Toilet paper, virus killing toothpaste, Corona Killing Wipes, "Self Help Tea" (re-bagged organic blends), air filters, sprays, masks

If we all invested.. me being the poorest likely.. LOL it probably wouldn't even be that much but the SPRING BOARDING capability right now is AMAZING

We're not talking just SEO off the top. We could pound the News and pound social media with our shit, viral campaigns.........

Just hilarious to think. We have 9 pages of talking about some shit that's inevitable... If it'sg oing to happen.. it will happen.. And nobody's making money from all the fuss............

I'm actually creating content for my site on why my product can be useful during the virus . Highlighting the 'could be' situations. Even my bloggers are getting delayed from this virus shit... It's crazy times but we can MAKE MONEY when there's blood in the streets.. Somebody has to survive.
 

CCarter

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Somebody has to survive.
Over 98% of the population will. The virus doesn’t kill. The other underlying diseases consumers have do.
 
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Everyone is an expert on these things, same as vaccines (people who think they can treat measles with cucumber water and lemon juice), global warming, politics, etc. It's like that one uncle who talks about stock trading at Christmas.

People with no formal training in medicine have no basis to spread their own research on complicated viral diseases that not even doctors understand. I don't know shit about medicine, but I listen to people that do - but I can speak for numbers in general as I know statistics.

I know several doctors who are currently treating patient with Covid19 - all the doctors I know have dealt with cases.

We have test kits here, and stats here show only people who have confirmed infection, not people who have a cold and think "maybe it could be corona because I saw it on TV". The numbers of infected people are far higher, because only confirmed cases are actually listed as infected - something the data aggregators are open about. When there are 30 000 cases in italy, it is 30 000 cases confirmed, and not 1000 cases of Covid19, and 29 000 cases on manflu.

Similarly mortality rates are higher than many countries show now, because the true death rate is amount of recovered patients vs deaths, not infected vs. dead which operate at two different timelines (people don't die instantly). With a doubling of infections every 2-4 days depending on containment, the dead we see now are the infections from days/weeks ago, so there's a substantial lag.

It's like when you pay upfront for leads, and convert them later. You get leads (infections) and they gradually convert to buyers or non-converters (dead/recovered) ... since we're a marketing forum.

It's also not a flu virus, so it's not similar to H1N1 or a regular seasonal flu that most have immunity for. It's a different virus.

It's more similar to SARS, which had a mortality rate of ~10% but was less contagious. Also there a disproportionate amount of the people who were infected were healthcare workers, because initially it was treated way to lax in terms of protective gear.
Where have the like button gone? If there ever was a post to be liked, this would be it. People doing "their own research" lol. coolstarrybra.jpg

A+, would read again.
 

Jared

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Today, I was reminded of this gem from the oh-so-trustworthy experts at the World Health Organization:


"It's okay guys . . . China says it's not contagious!"

Let's never forget that WHO buried their tongue in China's ass for the first 6-8 weeks of this breakout, allowing it to spread across the globe. The world deserves better.
 
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So in Italy there are 450 deaths in one day. That number is going to get higher.

In my country, there are cops on the street arresting everyone that's out after 20 PM.

Soon they will miraculously invent the vaccine and we will all be in the line for one like sheeps. Think about that. Do you trust guys on the top to fuck around with your body because some Asian guy ate the wrong animal?
 
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Soon they will miraculously invent the vaccine and we will all be in the line for one like sheeps. Think about that. Do you trust guys on the top to fuck around with your body because some Asian guy ate the wrong animal?
Yes, I trust vaccines.

#StayWoke, or whatever, I guess?
 

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Had no power for the majority of today. Minor incident but wow... def tough to in anything but America right now......... EVERYWHERE ELSE IN THE WORLD is tougher I belive right now.. just an opion

So in Italy there are 450 deaths in one day. That number is going to get higher.

In my country, there are cops on the street arresting everyone that's out after 20 PM.

Soon they will miraculously invent the vaccine and we will all be in the line for one like sheeps. Think about that. Do you trust guys on the top to fuck around with your body because some Asian guy ate the wrong animal?
day after this it hit 600...soon likely we'ee about to start seeing 2500+ dying daily
 

EyesExist

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Oof. Weird. Everybody' quiet here now.

1 person is dying per hour in new york City right now...

https://nypost.com/2020/03/20/coronavirus-killing-more-than-a-person-an-hour-in-nyc/

And it's really weird.. Italians are really getting ravaged by this. even Italian-Americans. This entire family is being killed, one by one:

https://nypost.com/2020/03/21/two-m...-new-jersey-family-infected-with-coronavirus/

I feel like there has to be something in their habits or diet that's reallying giving this diease a 'freeway'

Western Europe is far more devastated than Eastern Europe. I'm wondering why.
 
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Oof. Weird. Everybody' quiet here now.

1 person is dying per hour in new york City right now...

https://nypost.com/2020/03/20/coronavirus-killing-more-than-a-person-an-hour-in-nyc/

And it's really weird.. Italians are really getting ravaged by this. even Italian-Americans. This entire family is being killed, one by one:

https://nypost.com/2020/03/21/two-m...-new-jersey-family-infected-with-coronavirus/

I feel like there has to be something in their habits or diet that's reallying giving this diease a 'freeway'

Western Europe is far more devastated than Eastern Europe. I'm wondering why.
My brain is personally burnt-out on virus talk- it's all I've heard for the past week on the news and in forums. My life hasn't changed in the slightest since this all started- I've been in "quarantine" for the last 4 years, lol.

In regards to the large number of Italians dying- isn't Italy one of the oldest countries in the world? I would imagine this would also impact Italian/Americans, as they would have moved to America back in what, the 50's and 60's?

Another thought- large amounts of wine are apparently consumed in Italy and lots of bread and pasta, whereas in Eastern Europe maybe more meat is consumed? I don't know, I think it's just an age thing more than a nationality or diet/lifestyle thing.
 

Jared

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The last time I checked, the fatality rate in Europe was around 4.5%, but only 1.5% here in North America. Weird.
 

EyesExist

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My brain is personally burnt-out on virus talk- it's all I've heard for the past week on the news and in forums. My life hasn't changed in the slightest since this all started- I've been in "quarantine" for the last 4 years, lol.

In regards to the large number of Italians dying- isn't Italy one of the oldest countries in the world? I would imagine this would also impact Italian/Americans, as they would have moved to America back in what, the 50's and 60's?

Another thought- large amounts of wine are apparently consumed in Italy and lots of bread and pasta, whereas in Eastern Europe maybe more meat is consumed? I don't know, I think it's just an age thing more than a nationality or diet/lifestyle thing.

I feel like all we've got now is TIME... going outside isn't n option for humans.. which sounds crazy

The more 'intelligent' creatures on earth and we've failed so miserably we can't go outside now for fear of catching a disease.. we somehow launched

And it's proven not to be age. There's a case of a baby 10 months old with Corona Virus.

One thing I've seen in DR howeve.r... Pneumonia has gone around since tourists came with the virus. I'm thinking this virus is some sort of '2-piece combo' if not more. And here, the heat is killing a part of it and leaving the pneumonia............. and its' not able to kill people as easily in this scenario.

Just was strange, seems like as soon as the virus really got here, a wave of this unidentifiable thing "like pneumonia" passed through ... and i heard that CoronaVirus cases in US, were thought to be pneumonia before too... they codn't identify coronavirus in many at first.

The last time I checked, the fatality rate in Europe was around 4.5%, but only 1.5% here in North America. Weird.

America = more diverse spectrum of people

This is currently skyrocketing however. NYC is already seeing 1 death per hour.

We didn't have enough cases yet it appears to topple hospitals .. we've just hit a first breaking point so number are jumping up.