When is enough actually enough - is it possible to define?

bernard

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I'm talking about money of course.

There are people who study this stuff. What tiers of money gives increased happiness.

The conclusion is something like "being a millionaire makes you really happy", but then happiness does not increase as much having 5 or 10 or 100 million.

Maybe these studies look at things at tiers too high.

Is there no measurable satisfaction in hitting, say 15K USD a month? What about 10K USD? Maybe it's not much different to making 5K a month. A lot of it might go to savings and thus deferring enjoyment.

At what point does income go from enjoyment and security to including power. I imagine having power feels good or people wouldn't seek it so much.

What are your tiers?

I'll go first. I've never made more than like 7K USD month, but I lived abroad in a poor country, so my net income was relatively much higher. It did not much increase my happiness. My extra income just allowed slightly better things, larger apartment, better transportation, more expensive wines and drinks etc. I did not find increased romantic success or something like that.

Maybe it depends pr. country. Undeveloped countries have not so many opportunities to spend upper middle class money as does developed countries, where a bit more money allows a lot more social signalling and segregation.
 

Ryuzaki

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I think it depends on the person.

There's a thread I won't call out, but I started typing about how people who are okay living paycheck-to-paycheck have very little foresight, and then deleted it. Couldn't be bothered. If a person lives that way and is anxious as hell, that's good. It's the people who aren't that are nuts. They don't look further than 30 days into the future, typically.

This type of person won't derive any pleasure from extra money, because they'll do what the 2nd type of person that doesn't derive happiness from money does: they'll inflate their expenses to meet their new income. Now they have the exact same problems they had before. The only difference is the 1st type doesn't have any anxiety from a lack of financial security.

It's the same for people that don't have a "float," or the ability to weather 3 months, 6 months, a year, with no income. They aren't prepared for any emergencies and tell themselves it's okay due to their government subsidized healthcare with 3 month waiting lists, or they have a safety net like rich parents or trust funds waiting to kick in. These are also the types that will max out credit cards and go into debt for non-business reasons.

The worst thing you can do is inflate your standard of living to meet your new income, instead of getting your nest egg together and reinvesting into your business. Entrepreneurs will derive a ton of happiness from this.

Normal people that start blowing all the money on trips and luxury items, that's fine. Everyone should reward themselves and who am I to tell someone else how to spend their own hard earned money. But typically they weren't happy before hand, and they're trying to fill a psychological and emotional void inside that material possessions and novel experiences can't fill. This is a huge reason why more money doesn't equal more happiness for most people.

Another reason is mo' money, mo' problems. You find out who your friends are, which family members are leeches, gossip hits the grapevine, etc. You also become a target for lawsuits, big time rich people end up needing a security detail, so now you have a paid stalker to meld into the background every where you go, people stop feeling like they can be authentic because they have to protect their image. Some people start getting crazy plastic surgery or freaking out about maintaining their wealth. They get screwed over by wealth management companies, etc.

One of my favorite songs talks about how getting wealthy (or achieving the top of athleticism or whatever else) is one game, and keeping it is another game altogether, where you're always walking the razor's edge. It's a balancing act.


As for me, the entire goal is financial security, time to pursue exercise, pay more people to free up more of my time, and then gather up more non-depreciating assets. And to provide the same to those I care about in my immediate sphere of influence, and then expand that sphere.

I don't buy toys and all that, so beyond having security (fuck you money), being a zillionaire wouldn't do much for me in terms of material possessions. I'd travel some, but otherwise I'd just pursue bigger risk and bigger reward games. I'll also likely never retire, even if I felt like I could, because the fun is in the pursuit of the next piece of greatness.

So yeah, I think it depends on the person, their mental state, what they think they value versus what they actually value, etc.
 
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CCarter

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I'm not sure if there should ever be "enough" and a point of "stopping" unless you stop having bills. I guess If you've made enough right moves and invested in projects and companies that generate you income from investments then you can "take it easy" - but someone talking like that isn't an entrepreneur IMO.

A real entrepreneur wouldn't be able to sit on the beach for a week or a month without going insane. When I turned 25 I "retired" literally had the beach as my backyard. Go down stairs everyday and sit in the fucking sand for more than 2 hours and shit gets boring very fast.

There are only so many parties to go to and so much TV you can watch until it's all repeating itself. If you do not have intellectual pursuits life gets boring fast. Running a business or two creates challenges to overcome.

Another thing that drives me is looking at homeless people. I see them and shutter and ask myself what slip ups did they make to get to such a state. When did they "give up"? And then I think about 70 or 80 year old me. Do I want me or my wife bagging groceries at the super market just to make ends meet? Hell fuck no.

Another thing that would kill my soul and an entrepreneur's soul is the 9-5 rat race. I remember going to work in the morning an 1 hour of traffic, then coming home would take 1-3 hours of traffic. Cars honking and beeping all around, highway turned into a parking lot. I could barely do it for 6 months, and I remember thinking - 40+ more years of this shit? Fuck no. That's not living.

The one thing they don't mention is as an entrepreneur you aren't working 9-5, you work 24/7, can go to 18+ hours a day and more when things are tough. But I love every moment of it.

So if one thing doesn't keep me going another will.

If you are doing something you don't like doing, you should probably stop it.

If you feel like its only about money to you, then you probably are in the wrong business, and you should find something that makes you happy.
 
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Personally, I don't care about money. I'll try to explain why.

My ideal life would be hiking/traveling all day, every day, without a home. I see a lot of these Pacific Crest Trail hiking videos, where they hike from Mexico to Canada over four-six months, and I want a similar life. Without anything to worry about. Just wake up in a tent, pack it up, walk all day while enjoying the nature, set up the tent again in the evening, sleep, and repeat. IMO modern life, where people work 40h weeks just for a roof over their head and food, is just retarded. I would LOVE to live a simple life for 50$/month somewhere in a self-built shack on a remote island without any technology.

But then again.. I have this other side of me, where I can't stand still.

Every day that I spend doing nothing, at the end of the day, I feel like shit, because I know I haven't achieved anything that day. After a few weeks of traveling/hiking, I become depressed and want to start doing something again to feel productive. I've talked about this with my girlfriend, with my brother, and my friends, but none of them feel the same. I don't know if it's a mental thing or something.

My cure is having a business to work on. Having goals and achieving them. Making money is like a game for me, which I'm addicted to. When I'm being productive, at the end of the day, I feel really good about myself.

For some periods, I'll be lazy and fantasize about leaving everything and just becoming a traveling hobo, but on others, I'll be working round the clock, thinking about how I'll build the best website out there and crush all of my competitors. For me, it's not about earning the right amount of money, but finding a balance between these two.

I guess the amount of money that would make me somewhat "satisfied," would be 5-10k per month. With that, I could live a satisfying everyday life and have the freedom to take a month off and just go hiking/traveling to new places in the world, whenever I want to. That said, if I'd reach that level, I wouldn't stop there. Otherwise, my life would become still and depressing, because I wouldn't have any goals to achieve. So for me, it's always: MORE, MORE, MORE, relax for a month, MORE, MORE, MORE.
 

mikey3times

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I thought this was interesting.

He muses aloud about his next move. Should it be that important thing, like climate or religion? Or, he wonders, why wouldn’t he be happy opening something like a grocery store? “Why does it have to be bigger?” Rahal says. He speaks quietly, flicking his fingers over his mug, his eyes directed at the kitchen’s luxurious marble countertop, swirled with green. “It’s a problem of ‘it’s never enough,’” he says. “It’s a disease of people who are driven.”
 

darkzerothree

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«...»

Another thing that would kill my soul and an entrepreneur's soul is the 9-5 rat race. I remember going to work in the morning an 1 hour of traffic, then coming home would take 1-3 hours of traffic. Cars honking and beeping all around, highway turned into a parking lot. I could barely do it for 6 months, and I remember thinking - 40+ more years of this shit? Fuck no. That's not living.

The one thing they don't mention is as an entrepreneur you aren't working 9-5, you work 24/7, can go to 18+ hours a day and more when things are tough. But I love every moment of it.

So if one thing doesn't keep me going another will.

If you are doing something you don't like doing, you should probably stop it.

If you feel like its only about money to you, then you probably are in the wrong business, and you should find something that makes you happy.

Disclaimer:
I still hold a 9-5, but I reduced it to 4 days a week (80% we call it here), and I get 5weeks of vacation a year - unlimited sick time, 3 month notice, etc.. because Europe.
So I im using the extra time to get a project flying. This involves devs from Eastern Europe, the client is in western Europe.


Thing that bears meantion is that it becomes that way really quickly.
Work on a little bigger project with a few passionate peopen, and quickly you get emails on the weekends, end up planning on the commute, planning, and writing emails, etc.. 24/7.

But yeah.. wouldn't have it any other way... looking forward to more, actually, as this is taking shape.
(13th of October, 9:50pm local time, working on the backend of a client site..)
 
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This really depends on the person more than anything.

I have one friend that worked hard, saved like 95% of his income and invested in a bunch of RE in 2009-2011, he hasn't worked much since then. He has plenty of monthly cash flow but he still lives very cheaply. He spends his time almost constantly traveling (usually visiting friends and sleeping on couches etc) and volunteering and just goofing off and is very content and happy to do so.

I've seen other friends hit the 10mm mark in liquid assets and they just keep working hard as ever. They try to "relax" but are just right back at it a short time later.

It all depends on the person; with my personal experience being the type of people to end up making lots of money in the first place just keep working, not to upgrade their lifestyle but just because it's work that makes them content and happy in the first place.

Most of the people I've met that have plenty of money and don't still work a ton come from family money and never had to work that hard in the first place to get where they are.
 

EyesExist

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Enough to me is when My ideas run out and stop working. My ideas will always exist as long as there's another idea to inspire me to want more. The pool's pretty infinite.

It's funny how people say money can't buy happineess but living in DR.. there's a quote that goes to the contrary of those that say this.

"Money can't buy happiness, but poverty can't buy anything"