Google Algorithm Updates - 2023 Ongoing Discussion

[saeja]

SGE is better than snippets.

I saw a search query in other buso thread: how many tails a cat has

Here are the 2 different results.

Generative text

Snippet

 

[illmasterj]

I am against the increasing use of "experts" in everything though. Like with so many people and their mediocre university degrees that it sort of becomes that you can't make a site about fishing unless you were a marine biologist.

The trend is to hire a marine biologist and leverage their LinkedIn/certification/name for your content. Of course, that content is still being written in East-Asia for $0.02 per word.

I'm not sure this is helpful for anyone.

 

[Nonbeardedman]

Try this and check the results and the dates: https://www.google.com/search?q=how+many+tails+a+cat+has

Though one good thing about this. There is no way they will keep it like this, as it is a huge mess now it seems.

Wtf. It looks like the kind of results you find on page 20-30 of Google SERPs just above those Chinese/Korean directory sites

 

[bernard]

The trend is to hire a marine biologist and leverage their LinkedIn/certification/name for your content. Of course, that content is still being written in East-Asia for $0.02 per word.

I'm not sure this is helpful for anyone.

Yes, a marine biologist from Romania is perfectly qualified to be an expert on catching alligator gar in Florida.

Wtf. It looks like the kind of results you find on page 20-30 of Google SERPs just above those Chinese/Korean directory sites

Not really.

This is actually a very good learning experience.

It shows that google is no longer going by keywords, it's going by meaning, context and intent.

In this case, the weird (and grammatically wrong) phrasing, makes google think we're dealing with poetry or antiquated language.

Second, because google connects: cat -> 1 tail, then google deduces that the cat with many tails must not be an actual cat but the nine-tailed cat aka the punishment instrument.

Having decided that the user might be searching for the 9 tailed cat and perhaps deducing a lack of continental/american english, it suggests "Sjambok" in the related searches, which of course is a famous south african punishment.

This really shows a lot about how google works and why focusing strictly on keywords is not necessarily a great idea.

 

[Boy]

I'm sick of seeing terrible examples used to show how 'google bad' and I'm not even an SEO purist. It reminds me of people putting logic puzzles in ChatGPT, it doesn't get it right, and going, "hurr hurr, AI isn't going to take our jobs," or AI images & hands last year.

The most insincere gotcha. "Dumbasssaywhat." "What?" "Hahaha, you're dumb!"

Even the example from Twitter about unresolved childhood issues. That's a joke. Do you people not have any personality or writing style?

Here's an intro to another post on that site about boilers. BOILERS.

Similies and metaphors. Jokes.

Not some Are you looking for the best boiler? If so, you've come to the right place. In this article, we'll talk about the best boiler.

Does anyone have an example of a search result that's impactful? Financial advice? Fitness? Something promoting feeding chocolate to dogs? Or is it all obscure searches from content designed to be deceitful?

 

[CCarter]

Does anyone have an example of a search result that's impactful? Financial advice? Fitness? Something promoting feeding chocolate to dogs? Or is it all obscure searches from content designed to be deceitful?

No.

Honestly I have yet to see a site impacted that were not easy to spot simple problems. Most SEOs complaining seem to put in the least effort possible, it's always swiss cheese when you point out obvious flaws in their armor.

Shots Fired. Come At Me Bro.

 

[tziahs]

No.

Honestly I have yet to see a site impacted that were not easy to spot simple problems. Most SEOs complaining seem to put in the least effort possible, it's always swiss cheese when you point out obvious flaws in their armor.

Shots Fired. Come At Me Bro.

OK, I'll bite ))

This website is fairly professional-looking. The guy who owns it was fat during his youth, but in his early 40s he got fit and got his Certified Personal Trainer license. Now, he works at a local Planet Fitness center, where he coaches clients.

He launched a blog to talk about fitness, review products, machines, routines, and whatever is important in the fitness niche. He also has a YouTube channel, is active on social media, and has original photos with his face clearly visible. Plus, he is a native English speaker - obviously not an Indian impersonating an American. He basically follows almost everything in the EEAT guidelines.

After getting 500,000 clicks in the past year from Google, the recent HCU hit him hard, HARD - he lost 80 percent of his traffic. Watch his video about the SERPs he is seeing now, where his blog about "lunk alarm" (apparently this is a stupid alarm that Planet Fitness uses) was replaced by a short 100-word post from a local fitness machine manufacturer.

He has actual experience, is certified, works at a Planet Fitness gym, and knows a lot about this stupid alarm. But somehow, Google suddenly doesn't like him.

I am not saying the HCU is pure crap - there are tons of SEO gurus who just write/wrote for Google, and it's perfectly normal to hit those websites. But there are some losers who did almost everything right.

 

[bernard]

@tziahs thanks for sharing and giving an example.

I'll go ahead and show you why I think this guy got hit and how it could be avoided.

I clicked on the first product review about some kind of running shoe:

That's not a good review.

It's shit content.

I mean, at least have some specs, at least have a proper table to make a comparison, at least link to some people who actually have used these shoes, at least have some videos, at least recommend each for some use, purpose or user.

We have to be honest. This is trash.

I have posts like that too, but I understand this is minimum effort, no value posts, I'm just trying to take advantage of a low competition keyword. I wouldn't think I was unfairly targeted.

If people actually think they deserve rankings with this kind of review then ...

Once again, just because some DR70 brand can get away with trash like this, doesn't mean you can as a small fish.

Here's what proper review content look like:

Example 1: https://barefootrunreview.com/top-5-zero-drop-shoes-with-cushion/

Unique images, guy clearly tried some of them, but not all. Recommends actual uses for each shoe. Still could be better. Lacks a table and some easy to understand way of seeing what's recommended for who.

He's even outranking Runrepeat.com, because Runrepeat.com doesn't seem to show any of these shoes in use, just their boring, but still value added, technical analysis of the shoe:

https://runrepeat.com/guides/best-zero-drop-running-shoes

Here's an example of big brand shit that unfortunately also ranks:

https://www.menshealth.com/fitness/g43724058/best-minimalist-running-shoes/

This is complete trash, don't get me wrong, but at least it has specs and some real pros-cons.

In conclusion:

We have to be real, for the example I picked, this guy does not deserve to rank.

 

[CCarter]

So now I realize you SEO guys really do need glasses.

This fitness guru has 15 videos on the YouTube channel YOU linked - and 100% of them are about Google SEO.

They all started September 2023. Where is the expertise in fitness? When people are looking for workouts and fitness they want to see examples of exercises, gym equipment usage, and diet. What the fuck does Google SEO HCU have to do with ANY of that?

How is he an EEAT expert in fitness?

But let's do a deep dive.

His Tiktok link isn't working in HIS Footer on HIS website. How come he doesn't realize his TikTok link doesn't work?

For all the shit he talks about getting hit by Google because his SEO game is so amazing - why hasn't he bother checking his broken links?

He forgot the @ symbol in his username. If he's so good at SEO why hasn't he bothered looking at his 404 errors being produced from HIS footer?

I can't sit here and talk shit about SEO all day and then when you visit my website it has broken links. There is a saying "You wouldn't take plumbing advice from a plumber with leaky pipes in his own home."

The Spotify podcast that he posted has 1 podcast posts once a month, but last one is June 8th - 4+ months ago.

His twitter - his last post is from May 2022 - 17+ months ago? Ironically he has reply tweets about Google SEO, replying to other tweets about this update.

His facebook - last post is from September 2022 - 13 months ago. In fact he has 2 posts total and it's just profile updates from that page. So FB is non-existent, yet links to it.

His Instagram - he's got posts that look like they are 1 week apart, it looks like a regular guy instagram.

I went to his website and found out he has another YouTube channel from his Footer - separate from the one posted above. He has 680 videos, looks pretty good... EXCEPT when you organize it by "popular videos", lets take a look:

His #1 most popular video is about connecting Instagram to Facebook Pages and Linking FB and IG together - 552K views.

His #3 most popular video is about Sharing a post in IG and reposting it - 222K views.

His #4 most popular video is about how to share a playlist on spotify - 146K views.

#5 - how to play spotify music on multiple devices - 96K views.

#8 - How to send a gif in text message on Iphone iMessage - 69K views.

#11 - how to post form Instagram to Facebook - 36K views.

#14 - updating how to connect Instagram to Facebook - 31K views.

A majority of his YouTube views, almost 80% are about social media. So as far as Google is concerned his YouTube is about social media and connecting accounts, almost like a social media expert, definitely not SEO with these problems we're seeing so far.

His main Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@FizznessShizzness/about

Scroll through his videos by popularity, then scroll through them by oldest - the content is completely out of whack.

Within his YouTube the 1st link goes to a twitter account that's no longer exists. He didn't even bother to update the Twitter account within his YouTube channel.

He's an expert in what? Not having discipline? He's clearly not good at the basic of SEO - making sure your links work, links YOU setup!

Honestly I don't see how you guys think this guy is fit, he just lost weight, maybe he goes to the gym, but I don't see how he's an expert in fitness.

I found all that while laying down after taking a nap and viewing this BuSo thread.

Here is an expert in fitness: https://www.youtube.com/@athleanx/videos

When I see Athlean-X, I see a fit guy. Look at his videos, sort by popular: ALL his top 100 videos are about fitness and muscle and diet. He started his YouTube in 2006, the other dude in 2011 - so a 5 year head start. Athlean-X has double the video content.

Fizness guy looks like a guy trying to be a social media influencer whereas Athlean-X has content about fitness AND looks the part. The only thing Fizzness is an expert in is connecting Instagram to Facebook or other social media. He can't even get his own links to work correctly.

Athlean-X has a Facebook who's got recent posts as of 7 hours ago, posts 5-14 times a week.

Athlean-X has an YouTube posting 2-3 times a week, in-depth detailed posts. Remember guys Google can transcribe content from Videos, it's how they show automatic closed captions, that's how they know what the content is about.

Athlean-X has an IG where there are recent posts about fitness as of 3 days ago, and continues to post multiple times a day on this account.

Now if Athlean-X got 80% of his SEO traffic hit then Google has made a massive mistake.

When you Google "Fizzness Shizzness" Google has categorized him as a "musical artist":

The VERY first thing as an SEO that he should do is get that Google categorization changed! That's what I would work in, cause clearly Google doesn't understand him.

Athlean-X has a 5 year head start, but none of the mistakes Fizness is making is cause of that time difference. Athlean-X has put in the work and has built his brand in that timeframe - where-as this guy was eating potato chips - right?

He got fit in his 40s and is 46 now, so in 2011 he was eating potato chips.

So who deserves more Google traffic? Athlean-X who has been dedicated since 2006 or Mr. PotatoChips-Music-Artist? Who should the audience look to for advice?

The reason I'm first harping in on his external profile is because EEAT is suppose to showcase how you are an expert in your field. Go back to his external profiles and tell me how Google is suppose to see him as an expert and how I'm wrong. Because I don't see it.

This website is fairly professional-looking.

No it doesn't, not by any stretch of the imagination.

His main site:

Where are the margins on the sides? Anyone with any design sense would go to his site and notice there are no left and right margins on his content. Any half-way decent website designer would notice that immediately.

His website is literally just a blog roll: https://fizznessshizzness.com/blog

That's pretty terrible. That's a bad design and if you think that's a good design you need your head examined.

I tried it on Chrome and realize there is some pop-up scrolling AD at the bottom of the pages that you can't close. You guys think that's a great user experience? You think user's like that? When they try to close the pop up it just closes the AD, yet the space is still taken up.

Going into the blog of course there is a scrolling video in the bottom right corner as well:

Fantastic - that's not annoying.

And as @bernard pointed out ALL his product images are clearly stock images, so he has never bothered to try out the shoes he is recommending, just talking shit.

You guys can tell when images are stock. So can consumers. In fact there are studies showing that consumers automatically scroll past stock images. Google favors unique images and can tell when the image is simple a duplicate from another website.

So what's he an expert in?

It looks like a guy that lost weight by water fasting for 2-4 weeks in his 40s and now is randomly blogging to get affiliate sales.

I don't see a fitness expert. Maybe he can help me connect my Instagram to Facebook at most, clearly he can't help me with connecting to TikTok.

I mean I guess I can also ask him for his favorite potato chip flavor - cool ranch or mountain dew. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[CCarter]

I want to add one more thing about the Fizness site - to see how old the site is, go look at the date of the first blog post. It's from August 2021 - so 2 years. Dude has been blogging for 2 years, versus Athlean-X being around since 2006.

In what's realm does blogging for 2 years make you an EEAT expert in Google's eyes or even the audience?

The 2 year mark in SEO is when you are just getting STARTED to have Google take you seriously.

Go back and looking at his YouTube videos, sort by oldest videos, lots of weird stuff like "Open Houses" and talking about real estate, he was figuring shit out, no problem. It looks like he got serious 2 years ago in the fitness side of his hustle, around when he started blogging, so time matches up.

He's been doing this fitness blogging stuff for 2 years. That's not an expert by any stretch of the imagination. His EEAT signals, brand signals, and online presence is swiss cheese.

Give me a serious challenge next time.

 

[chubes]

I watched some of his Youtube videos. I don't fully agree with the things he says, but I respect the hustle. He is trying to pivot into SEO topics aimed at people who lost traffic.

However, he is blindly advising people to embed YouTube videos on their homepage. That I don't really agree with for a blog, because I think you want a clean homepage that directs people around the site.

His traffic has truly been reduced to nothing, though. That's the worst hit site I've seen yet, if the Ahrefs numbers are accurate.

There are a lot in my space that have been hit bad. I have noticed that a lot of them seem to just spin content that is purposely long. My own site was hit, but not as bad as many others. I have an old ass site with a lot of backlinks.

I agree with a lot of what CCarter, Bernard, & Boy have been saying about these sites. It's inspired me to focus on being concise and getting straight to the point, and focusing on fleshing out the brand moreso than volume of content and traffic.

Also reducing the number of ads and shifting focus to keeping people on the site longer. Cleaning up the CSS. Removing outdated BS, 22 year old me stoned trying to learn code from 2015.

Also, expanding into more real life products. Tomorrow morning we are announcing a beer release in collaboration with a local brewery. Royalties in real life, my brand on the menu at restaurants. This leads to more real life opportunities and collaborations, getting me off the Google Teet one step at a time. While also making Google see me as "more legit".

Diversify and don't rely solely on ads or Google. That way you can't get cucked by an update.

Lots of genius and experienced advice in here. Thank you all.

 

[Smith]

Give me a serious challenge next time.

https://bankbonus.com/

• 90% drop (according to SEM) since Aug core update
• The main author is well-known in the finance space (knowledge panel)
• Ok backlink profile
• On-page and technical SEO appear decent
• Comparisons follow the same approach as similar sites

These guys seem to know what they're doing. The main author/owner is also the founder of Millennial Money, which he previously sold to Motley Fool (he then bought it back). Selling a site to Fool is nothing to sneeze at. I doubt the DD process could be pulled off by someone who isn't at the top of their game.

I'm not advocating for this site. But I am curious to see why you think these guys are getting torn apart in recent updates - especially since they seem to offer the same sort of content as a lot of their competitors that are stable over the last few months.

 

[bernard]

Ok backlink profile

I wouldn't say so.

It's a DR34 site and that seems low in such a competitive space. When I look through the first couple of pages of referring domains there is a glaring lack of links from high level newspapers and magazines. A surprising lack of high quality link actually.

There also seems to be a bunch of links from similar finance sites that seem like paid links. And most of the sites linking to it have much better links themselves.

They most likely had more traffic than their domain strength suggested they should have.

I will also add that this is a bit of a gimmicky site, one that gathers bank bonuses, but their content is all over the place in the finance niche. This seems to be a commonality, like the fitness site.

A site that found favour with Google and then started publishing all over the place, just looking for more page views. This is not a new criticism. Authority Hackers have been pointing this out for years.

What you'd have wanted with Bankbonus.com was to absolutely dominate that space. Instead of posting unrelated content like "How Long Does It Take For A Check To Clear?" and "Are Banks Open Today?", you'd focus strictly on winning each and every bank bonus keyword.

You'd be so dominant the competition would not even think about it. You'd be so visible that journalists linked to you on their own, because there was only you who made this effort.

Then sell the site and be happy.

Niche down. Be THE expert.

With the guy above in the example, he could have been an expert for "Losing weights quickly in your 40s". That would be an EEAT compliant business. Not writing bad reviews for zero drop running shoes.

Everyone kind of jumped on the idea of page views over everything else.

You don't need page views always, you need highly valuable traffic and kick ass content with exceptional conversion, that you have incrementally increased through years of testing your audience.

 

[CCarter]

https://bankbonus.com/

Let's start this one a different way.

BankBonus.com has 2,200 pages indexed, but only about 78 pages generating traffic from Google. How do I know that, at SERPWoo we only monitor URLs that have at some point entered the top 30 results for keywords within Google.

To give a comparison MontlyFool's domain has 561,000 indexed pages, 49,643 pages which are have at some point hit the top 30 results of Google and we start automatically monitoring. So about 8-10% of their pages drive their SEO traffic - sounds about right if you do the 80/20 rule.

The BankBonus.com domain is at 3.5%.

Do a comparison with SERPWoo.com - I want to show you how I see stuff. I gauge domains by what I know traffic and presence wise. SW has about 276 pages generating traffic from Google which we monitor which have entered the top 30 results at some point. SW has 425 pages index in Google - personally I don't see how it's that much, but okay. That comes to about 65% of our pages generate traffic from Google.

ALL any URL has to do is enter the top 30 results ONCE for us to monitor it.

Let's look at BuilderSociety.com -it has 1430 pages index, and 629 are being auto monitor cause they hit within the top 30 at one point. So about 44% of the pages are generating traffic from Google.

Let's see CNN, it has 15,400,000 indexed pages, with 189,652 generating traffic from Google - so about 1.2%. CNN is a great outlier example since it's massive brand with an massive online presences when compared to it's competing Mainstream media brothers.

FoxNews.com - has 2,870,000 indexed pages with 109,785 generating traffic from Google. So about 3.8% of their pages generate traffic from Google.


Ahrefs DR Numbers:

BankBonus.com = 34
Fool.com = 90
SERPWoo.com = 59
BuilderSociety.com = 59
CNN.com = 93
FoxNews.com = 91

-

BankBonus.com is the weakest site in the comparison. If you look at their backlinks - it's pretty bad. The higher DR sites are ALL NO-following them.

--

There is absolute ZERO social presences for this brand. NONE.

There is no Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, or Linkedin for this brand. The individual authors have some of these, but they don't point back to bankbonus.com.

Everyone is pointing from WITHIN the website how they are an expert, with the main guy Grant Sabatier, showcasing his interviews.

However NO ONE is pointing to BankBonus.com how they are experts.

It's "me me me, I'm the expert" - but no one is pointing to them stating "yeah they are the expert". It's basically self-promote leveraging guest posts or interviews from the past and putting it on their site.

Motley Fool doesn't point back to BankBonus. None of the interviews he has done or podcasts or ANYTHING point back to BankBonus.

Looking at his Linkedin BankBonus was started in 2021 - again the 2 year mark!

How is an expert? Because he sold a site to Motley Fool? I don't think so.

He has a wikipedia about him, he's an author, but it's a very short one, but that doesn't even point to BankBonus.com.

Where is the authority pointing back to BankBonus? - Not Grant, being an expert in the field of finance? Grant's own Twitter doesn't link back to BankBonus.

Grant's Linkedin points to MillennialMoney - not BankBonus.

In Fact Go to the author list: https://bankbonus.com/about/

Visit the Social media accounts of all the other authors - NONE of them are pointing back to BankBonus. The only way I found they have a Linkedin Page for the company is through the 2nd Co-Founder: https://www.linkedin.com/company/bankbonus/

Now the other authors are on social media regularly, but they have their own projects or are Co-Founders of other companies. They are actively promoting their other stuff on social media.

NOT A SINGLE ONE OF THEM is pointing to BankBonus from Twitter.

--

They have a podcast on Spotify (https://bankbonus.com/podcast/), with a total of 2 podcasts - all within October 2023. Jesus.

--

I Found the bankbonus twitter - 0 followers, 0 following, 0 posts, no profile image: https://twitter.com/BankBonuscom

I can't find their Facebook.

I can't find their YouTube.

I didn't find their TikTok.

If I can't find them within the normal platforms - how is Google going to see them worthy of traffic? I had to guess to even figure out their twitter handle.

--

So if EEAT is required to showcase a domain is an authority - what links or entities point back to BankBonus stating that validation?

Their own authors do not.

They have absolutely zero social media presences or game plan.

If I Google "Bank Bonus" their domain doesn't even come up in the Top 10 results.

Let's see what's going on at Reddit about them: https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/vixsxt/is_bankbonuscom_legit/

"is this legit or a scam?"

Jesus Christ.

--

The normal places you would expect people to be talking about them or pointing to them as an expert DO NOT, or ask if they are suspect.

--

This is a fucking blog roll website, that's a side project from a couple guys at Motley Fool, that's got some nice bright colors.

Take away the purple and pink, and you got a guy or two, claiming they are experts without a single other entity validating that claim. They themselves barely link to BankBonus, they'd rather link to their old interviews first.

So what - he sold a blog to Motley Fool? Maybe he sold it for $5000 - I don't know. "Terms of the deal were not disclosed."

He wrote a couple of books on the topic - I can self-publish too. The Wikipedia article about him is 2-3 paragraphs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grant_Sabatier.

He's an old-school "self-promotion guru" from past media doing the promotional circuit. He's not even with the times of present-day social media.

I don't see how you see he is a worthy expert, but let's say he IS. For the argument, let's say he IS.

Why isn't he promoting BankBonus? Why is no one pushing BankBonus?

One-link here, one-link there, but that's it. And it's only from the authors.

And BankBonus is 2 years old - it's a brand new site (2 years old based off their LinkedIn profiles stating when they started "working" there).

They barely just got out the Google sandbox, and this site suppose to be EEAT expert ready to be side by side with the likes of Motley Fool? I don't see it.

--

Let's go to Archive.org and what do we see:

A brand new fucking website - 2 years old based off the calendar graph, probably bought the domain for the name. But that domain has been sitting stagnate for 10 years before in 2011? Registered in 2005.

It's a 2 year old domain - why would they be considered experts?

By no stretch of the imagination should BankBonus be considered an expert in what they write about.

It's to the point that the only social media presence is someone on Reddit asking if the website is legit or a scam. They should probably fix that.

Another Swiss cheese website.

 

[JOoa0ky]

If anyone suspects their wife is having an affair, I would hire @CCarter as a private investigator lol...

BankBonus.com has 2,200 pages indexed, but only about 78 pages generating traffic from Google. How do I know that, at SERPWoo we only monitor URLs that have at some point entered the top 30 results for keywords within Google.

To give a comparison MontlyFool's domain has 561,000 indexed pages, 49,643 pages which are have at some point hit the top 30 results of Google and we start automatically monitoring. So about 8-10% of their pages drive their SEO traffic - sounds about right if you do the 80/20 rule.

The BankBonus.com domain is at 3.5%.

In regards to having a lot of indexed pages but not a lot of them are generating traffic... would you go on a pruning spree? But what about in regards to completing the topical map or do you even believe in that?

 

[Smith]

Niche down. Be THE expert.

I agree completely. This should be the goal. Not building sites in niches where you have zero relevance/expertise. Instead, niche down where you actually have experience and be THE leader.

What you'd have wanted with Bankbonus.com was to absolutely dominate that space. Instead of posting unrelated content like "How Long Does It Take For A Check To Clear?" and "Are Banks Open Today?", you'd focus strictly on winning each and every bank bonus keyword.

Again, completely agree with this...

But...

1. Those "bank bonus" keywords are highly commercial and therefore highly competitive. So, if they only targeted the "bank bonus" keywords, they probably wouldn't break through page two on Google.

2. Let's pretend the competition isn't an issue. What about topical/niche authority? Do you think Google would have awarded all of the "bank bonus" keywords to a site that doesn't have any authority in banking?

3. I'm not advocating the approach but I'm guessing all the "How long does it take for a check to clear?" and "Are banks open today?" articles are low competition and may have been part of a bigger strategy (e.g. a variation of Avalanche) where they're trying to build up a base of content to show Google they can (or could) write and rank in the banking space.

There is absolute ZERO social presences for this brand. NONE.

Yes, non-existing. This was shocking. Why not throw up a Facebook/X/Instagram feed with an RSS and at least have a bare minimum presence?

It's a 2 year old domain - why would they be considered experts?

I know there's no simple answer... But, how long does a site need to be around for you to think "Okay, they've been around long enough to be seen as an authority." Is it 5 years, 10 years, more?

2,200 pages indexed, but only about 78 pages generating traffic from Google

That's a crazy stat. Same question as @JOoa0ky. In an instance like this, is a culling necessary?

Also, @bernard and @CCarter thanks for the solid feedback and insights. I agree with @chubes - insane value coming out of this thread.

 

[bernard]

1. Those "bank bonus" keywords are highly commercial and therefore highly competitive. So, if they only targeted the "bank bonus" keywords, they probably wouldn't break through page two on Google.

2. Let's pretend the competition isn't an issue. What about topical/niche authority? Do you think Google would have awarded all of the "bank bonus" keywords to a site that doesn't have any authority in banking?

3. I'm not advocating the approach but I'm guessing all the "How long does it take for a check to clear?" and "Are banks open today?" articles are low competition and may have been part of a bigger strategy (e.g. a variation of Avalanche) where they're trying to build up a base of content to show Google they can (or could) write and rank in the banking space.

I understand your point and maybe it's a relevant strategy, but I disagree with spending time and crawl budget on a bunch of low quality content.

In the case of that "Are banks open today article", it is not really a good article. If it was good, it would have a dynamic widget at the top saying "yes" or "no" depending on the date and looking it up in a database.

All this content costs resources. Spend that money on making calculators, links, videos, interactive content, a forum, software, facebook groups etc.

And if you think you can't find good enough topics to cover, then expand to other countries (Canada?), expat banking bonuses, or very closely related niches, like credit card bonuses.

Are they publishing unique studies? Do they have tons of spreadsheets with data? Do they have a yearly poll they ask their email list? Do they do studies on who their customers are etc etc.

Have they done an industry interview with banks?

You need to go "above and beyond" to win in niches like this. Can't just try to "match and exceed".

 

[DunderMannen]

I see all my "Video outside viewbox" pages have been completely de-ranked. Like they don't show up at all in the top 100 for the target keyword (90% of them was #1 before last update).

I gathered from a couple searches that this is because the video (youtube embed) is outside the top part of the article (I usually put them somewhere close to the bottom).

Anyone found a fix for it? Hurting one of my sites bad as I have a YT-vid in almost all articles, should I just remove them completely?

 

[eliquid]

I'm not going to divulge anything specific, because I learned that shit the hard way back in Wickedfire days.. but

I'm actually in the bank space for SEO. Not for anything "bonus" related, but I'm assuming they are wanting to rank for other terms besides the sign on bonus and other promos. Like, for other terms too in general.

Here is what I will tell you.

I have no authority, no social profiles, less than 50 articles, and Im competing against some of the largest names in the space.

I'm not #1, but I'm generally top 4 for the keywords that matter, and have been for going on 2+ years now.

Knowing how SEO is, over the years, and how competitors are... again over the years, I wouldn't spend my time on developing widgets to tell if banks are open or any of that stuff.

If you know how to rank, it much easier to match and exceed, get it up, rank and bank, and when it crashes down in 9 months ( if it does ), repeat the process again for what's working to rank. I'm not going to spend a lot of time and money on a widget only to end up not ranking or lose it in 9 months ( or less ). Or worse, have someone copy it and then outrank me with it if I get hit with a penalty or suffer from lower DR.

In some niches, I would say you are right.

In others, it doesn't make sense unless you have such a moat that the time and money sink is meaningless. Like, if you were BankRate or Nerd Wallet.

^^ Even then, let them do it and you just sit at #2 or #3. Plenty of money to be made not being #1

 

[bernard]

@eliquid

Remember when SEOs talked about white, grey and black hat? Maybe SEOs should still do that. Would make more people understand where they fit in the risk interval.

 

[Smith]

@eliquid thanks for sharing. If you're willing to share more...

I have no authority, no social profiles, less than 50 articles, and Im competing against some of the largest names in the space.

This seems like a big accomplishment in a competitive space like banking. In order to do this successfully, are you only targeting long-tail terms? Or are you also winning more general terms with the site you described?

Also... does this completely debunk the concept of topical authority? I'm guessing it would be tough to cover a topic like banking with less than 50 articles...

If you know how to rank, it much easier to match and exceed, get it up, rank and bank

Is this kind of rank and bank content monetized through affiliates and ads?

 

[Darth]

Amazing page of info right here, have never liked so many posts in a row on Buso.

I see all my "Video outside viewbox" pages have been completely de-ranked. Like they don't show up at all in the top 100 for the target keyword (90% of them was #1 before last update).

Also, I got a bunch of these messages too and never bothered to read the issue description - just assumed it was a bug. Obviously know now what to do though. Thanks

 

[CCarter]

I know there's no simple answer... But, how long does a site need to be around for you to think "Okay, they've been around long enough to be seen as an authority." Is it 5 years, 10 years, more?

I want this to be crystal clear.

CRYSTAL CLEAR.

IF you are going down the "ONLY SEO" route, there is no way to rank with simple SEO in 2023 without presences on social media platforms or having other traffic sources.

We have arrived at the end of days for the "just SEO" game. There is no way you can play this game without going down black or grey hat methods for just "pure SEO".

So if you are going down a pure white hat strategy, you better have additional marketing channels generating you traffic sources because that is NOW an absolute factor.

I have to ask, if you guys in 2023, don't take social media seriously, Why are all these world leaders, politicians, and even terrorist groups ON SOCIAL MEDIA?

If Twitter is the town square for the world, wouldn't it make sense to announce your most important messages there?

Why would Twitter conspire so hard to de-platform Donald Trump, if social media didn't influence millions and if not billions of people?

You guys are missing the boat.

90% of Gen-Z and Millennial get their news from social media.

People aren't waiting till 9PM to watch the news of what's going on in the world. The only way to get instant news is social media, it spreads fast and hard and by the time the cable news channels catch up to it it's already old news.

So if social media is this powerful, and now we have entered the stage in "pure white hat SEO" where people that only concentrate on just SEO are getting 80-90% decimated - there are only 2 options, get on the fucking boat or you die.

That's it. FULL STOP.

I've been shouting this message for over a decade. Every algorithm update you see more and more authority validation, brand signals, and EEAT strengthening happening to people with a strong online presences, the biggest being social media.

I'm tired guys.

I'm showing you guys these glaring problems in these swiss cheese websites. I'm usually looking at these sites for 5-10 minutes max. What are you guys doing?

Are you going to continue resisting? Fine. As Dan Peña say, "Fine, stay poor. I don't give a fuck".

You should be able to see it after all these Swiss cheese websites being questioned on why they lost their rankings.

Some of you guys are just now trying to jump on YouTube, What the fuck dude. Athlean-X/Jeff Cavaliere jumped on YouTube in 2006, that was 17 years ago. If you had a child when Jeff Cavaliere jumped on YouTube, that child is going to be an adult in 1 year. That is a LONG fucking time.

80%+ of the consumed content on the internet is video. And NOW you guys are just "about to get started with video".

It's 2023. I mean are you guys going to get serious in another 10 years. In 2033 are you guys finally going to give into video?

Right now you guys aren't even dinosaurs. You are fossil fuel in the ground right now - that's how old you are. You are fossil fuel that A.I. is slurping up to power the next generation of the internet.

You're not dead. You've BEEN DEAD. They are slurping up your corpse to power the future. They are reading your content and creating the next generation of content, meanwhile you are twiddling your thumbs waiting for Google analytics to refresh in 48 hours. Fuck.

/End Rant.

 

[mj22]

I want this to be crystal clear.

CRYSTAL CLEAR.

IF you are going down the "ONLY SEO" route, there is no way to rank with simple SEO in 2023 without presences on social media platforms or having other traffic sources.

We have arrived at the end of days for the "just SEO" game. There is no way you can play this game without going down black or grey hat methods for just "pure SEO".

So if you are going down a pure white hat strategy, you better have additional marketing channels generating you traffic sources because that is NOW an absolute factor.

I have said this same shit over a year ago now........... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. Hello ring ring? anyone home upstairs?

 

[Smith]

I hear you @CCarter and @mj22...

My main site is active on X/Facebook/Instagram/Linkedin and Youtube. It has hundreds of videos (with an actual human spewing knowledge) and thousands of subs, driving traffic and conversions every day.

... I'm on the boat.

And I completely agree with this:

We have arrived at the end of days for the "just SEO" game. There is no way you can play this game without going down black or grey hat methods for just "pure SEO".

The reason I asked this...

I know there's no simple answer... But, how long does a site need to be around for you to think "Okay, they've been around long enough to be seen as an authority." Is it 5 years, 10 years, more?

... was because in the two examples above (Fizzness & BankBonus) @CCarter referenced the age (2 years) of these sites as one of the many reasons why Google won't take these sites seriously from an SEO perspective.

So, I was looking to understand whether you thought there was an age when Google started to take sites seriously.

But, what I'm hearing is Google doesn't give two shits about the age of your site if you're brand is hitting all the other signals that make it an actual authority.

So, the 'secret sauce' is...

Stop looking for the 'secret sauce' and instead, go build authority by being the fucking authority in your niche. And maybe throw in a healthy dose of grey hat and black hat methods to grow faster.