Can we discuss PBN links?

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Looks like PBNs are considered junk by most of the good folks here. Should I stop wasting more time on creating real looking PBNs? Maybe I am still stuck in 2009, I don't know, but my PBNs have never been penalized , fingers crossed. AM I just lucky?

When you guys junk PBNs, what kind of PBNs are your referring to?

For good affiliate sites, are you guys only relying on blogger outreach for guest posts and natural links with a smattering of Huffpo type links?


I recently started slightly big amazon site and another content site (1000s of keywords) , I want to tread carefully.

So, lets discuss.
 

Ryuzaki

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If you aren't selling links or sharing links, I think you can survive forever if you cover the rest of your footprint bases. These are all over the place though, from the registrar to your hosting to the meta-data being supplied by the data you used to sign up for a hosting account, to on-site things.

Naturally, buying PBN links means they aren't at all private and are 100% intended to be used to churn and burn until the network is deindexed, regardless what the sales copy says. As soon as you sell a single link, that single user can do something absurd with their site, get a manual or algorithmic review, and you're one step upstream. Your PBN nodes will be visualized on a graph and it's going to be real obvious that they aren't natural to the human eye. As long as you never get a manual look, you can pass algorithmic tests all day if you're not stingy about OBL's and not greedy about linking to your own site.

Personally, having owned around a 200 domain PBN myself, it's far more sensible to just do outreach and true marketing and collect natural links. The world is your PBN.

There are other ways to use PBN's though to still siphon juice while insulating your money site from ill effects, for now. Google has already talked about "looking upstream" in regards to links. Take that to mean whatever, but in my mind they can't ignore tiered link building forever.
 
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As @Ryuzaki said, if you know how to build them and keep them safe and private, then there is really not any reason to not doing PBN's but also remember PBN's are not the end all be all in linkbuilding, and should never be your only source of links,no matter what the "I'll teachch you everything about PBN" course selling guys are saying. but I won't even go into a rant about those guys.
 
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The phrase "PBN" is incredibly broad and people us it to refer to all sorts of things. But this the short easy summmary:

PBN: buying links on crappy networks of sites that have links pointed and thousands of different sites from past people that bought links will not do you much good.

PBN: owning a set of sites yourself that all have authority with Google, post good content themselves and link to your new site will help you a ton.

There is another thread here about the huge companies that dominate Google. They all do it by owning networks of sites they all use to keep pushing any new sites they build/acquire.
 
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These are all over the place though, from the registrar to your hosting to the meta-data being supplied by the data you used to sign up for a hosting account, to on-site things.
.

WHat is this? And how do you take care of that?

Any good practices for PBN?
PS: I am not selling nor ever buy pbn links.
 
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I belive that what Ryu is talking about is those little seemingly unimportant things, that many forget to cover, such as using the same domain registar for all their PBN sites, hosting them all with the same 1,2 or 3 hosting companies, and for onsite it seems that 99% of everybody at least those who sell PBN links is using only wordpress on there sites with the same theme and plugins on all sites.
 

Ryuzaki

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I mean as far as your MX, TXT, SOA, NS records, etc. The little things nobody thinks about that will create a footprint between sites, even if you're on different servers and registrars. For instance, if you sign up for 100 different hosts using the same business email, most of those hosts are going to toss that in your Start of Authority records. Boom, Google knows you own all of the sites and domains from one minor detail that 99.9% of PBN owners don't know about.

What about something as small as the majority of your sites using premium themes (so you don't look like an MFA) that all load Google Fonts. They track through that as well. Pretty easy to start matching IP's on sites that don't get any traffic but from the webmaster.

The list goes on and on. This is why every most every single PBN finds it's way to the deindex bin. Footprints are everywhere, and even without footprints you're still coughing up data every which way you turn. You've got lots of cookies and tracking beacons in your browser as you read this.
 
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Personally, having owned around a 200 domain PBN myself, it's far more sensible to just do outreach and true marketing and collect natural links. The world is your PBN.

^ This!

The cost of renewing domains, hosting, managing content, etc... I found it to be a pain in the ass. It's actually easier and less expensive in the long game to get 200 high value links via outreach and be done with it. Plus, you'll get the added benefit of real visitors clicking through to your site. And resell value is MUCH higher without a PBN.
 

built

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I have a question, for affiliate pages, how do you rank and beat the competition without PBNs/paid links?
 
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I have a question, for affiliate pages, how do you rank and beat the competition without PBNs/paid links?
Outreach is going to be difficult unless it happens to be a high very highly informative and useful page that happens to have affiliate links. SO good PBNs and Paid links are the obvious way.
 
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What is your success rate on outreach? And what type of bloggers do you outreach to?

I am also always try to bribe any blogger that is in my niche, but mine is not an organized effort. Just write a mail as soon as I come across a webmaster who might be willing to link back.
 

CCarter

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All day long.. I love a good public blog network



I see what you did there.
 

Ryuzaki

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I have a question, for affiliate pages, how do you rank and beat the competition without PBNs/paid links?

- Open-Register Contextual Links on sites like Medium, Web 2.0's, News Sites.
- User-Generated Content like Blog Comments, Forum Posts, Social Media, Micro Blogging
- Platforms that allow member profiles with outbound links to your "homepage"
- Communities for Graphic Arts, Music, Photography that expect you to list a resource or build a profile

The list is endless. Those will keep you safe and you can spam them a bit if you wish or even aim a PBN at them. Nothing wrong with a few PBN / Paid Links either. But your ratio of those needs to be so small that when the networks get caught you have enough trust and links that it's negligible. If they make up 50%+ of your backlink profile you're probably going to catch a penalty.

What I do for my "affiliate pages" that are designed to sell something is make sure it's more like a Buyer's Guide than a set of reviews. I'll discuss "What is this product?", How does it work, why do we need it, what are the main functions, what additional features might I want, what else should I consider... then I'll list off the products in various price ranges with mini-reviews, making sure the reader knows these are hand selected as the best in each budget range. You've disarmed them, proven you know you're stuff, and pre-selected for them.

Plus you now have a long post that's worth linking to, regarding outreach and anything else. It'll rank easier too.
 

turbin3

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Personally, having owned around a 200 domain PBN myself, it's far more sensible to just do outreach and true marketing and collect natural links. The world is your PBN.

THIS motherfucking this all day long. PBN's are still a completely legitimate tool for the toolbox, but it's wise to try and gauge the point of diminishing returns based on your particular niche, market, product, service, etc. In other words:

1) netstat -f 1 (or whatever equivalent you prefer)
2) dat 1e100.net tho
3) Figure out how to disappear from the all-seeing eye

It's not that hard, but goddamn it can be time consuming. Worse yet, one misstep could destroy months or years worth of work. For some niches and businesses, that may have been valuable time you could have spent on good old product improvement, innovation, and some typical marketing efforts to get users doing the work for you.
 

Charles Floate

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At the end of the day, PBNs work.. The fear mongering behind them is purely because Google can find the networks people buy links off...
All day long.. I love a good public blog network

I know several SEOs that make 6 figures a year off a private blog network, and there networks are probably 100 - 200 sites max..

I did a little test and ran a PBN with default WP themes, expired domains using a cloud based SEO host but linked out to 1 or 2 sites from each of the PBNs.. Guess what? It's 7 months later, the money sites rank and not a single PBN has been deindexed with 25 domains on the go.. Google doesn't have an AI that can read if a site is a PBN or not, it HAS to be manually reviewing them and if you're going after a fairly standard 1k - 18k MS keyword (which can be VERY profitable) it's very unlikely you'll get hit if you use an actual private network.
 
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I disagree that there's no computational test that can be run to find a PBN, especially if you have a single leak in data like mentioned above.

If you truly have all of that taken care of and have plenty of outbound links pointing to other sites, then sure you could survive. But I'm not about to spend the time, energy, money, and overhead to have one or two outbound links to my site with a ton to other sites elsewhere. Of course you can strategically place your own OBL's and even tier through those posts to help.

But as your network gets bigger, there are a handful of algorithms that can spot out these link nodes, and each one builds a certain amount of statistical confidence that your links are from a PBN.

You could blur that fairly well though by acting like your own PBN is the PBN of ten other sites too. Make sure each site in your PBN links to the same set of ten other sites along with lots of other sites. Then at least they'd have a hard time determining who the PBN was owned by. Unless they run a calculation on exact match anchors, tiered juice, internal links pointing towards specific pages that all point to the same money site.

There's a lot of hoops to jump through. An SEO who's not a marketer should exploit PBN's. A marketer shouldn't even bother. Let someone else pay for the hosting, design, content, etc.
 

fatalityhawk

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This thread shouldn't be dead really, I am seeing PBN links still work fairly well, even today.
 

Golan

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PBN work. If you know how to use it.

I have couple of clients on monthly retainer of 3-4 figures, and few other guys that have been buying domains monthly or almost monthly for few years already. My guess is, that they would not continue building their networks if that was not working for them, right?

However, needless to say, they all are successfully working in very competitive industries, and proper PBN is just a part of their SEO patchwork, they all already were established in their niches when started PBN and already had a good cashflow to spend. It's not like "Here is my newborn project, let me slap some PBN for it and i don't need any other SEO", this probably would not work. As colleagues mentioned above, this money could be much better spent.
 

fatalityhawk

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Yeap, I agree.

Actually, some services have sprung up that also give decent results in medium-competition industries, so PBN space overall has improved as people learn to erase footprints better, and other PBN hosting solutions also popping up like Seeka Hosting, Host Papa etc.
 
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I managed operations for a well known large network for a couple years. They seemed to work a treat, especially with local, but not as reliable long term so most clients would use them to rank then flip their sites and cash out.

Only way I'd fathom setting up a network today was if I was already doing 5+ figures monthly and could afford the jacked up auction domains, but for the price and time these days I'd probably sink it into content instead.
 

secretagentdad

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This thread is goofy.
If you want the best pbn links on the internet that are currently ranking people for stuff go to the bst.

The bigger ops on this forum all seem to be lighting it up atm with them and from what I can see they aint bsing.

Use em while they work. Stop when they don't. Its currently big game season right here right now.

Link buying is straight forward. If someone has inventory that makes you money buy it until it stops working.
No need for silly 3 letter acronyms. Rank trackers exist. People are posting proof all over this site......


Edit: Here I added a helpful link. You can go shopping here.
https://www.buildersociety.com/forums/marketplace.12/
 
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^ This!

The cost of renewing domains, hosting, managing content, etc... I found it to be a pain in the ass. It's actually easier and less expensive in the long game to get 200 high value links via outreach and be done with it. Plus, you'll get the added benefit of real visitors clicking through to your site. And resell value is MUCH higher without a PBN.
there's a reason why ryuzaki build that much, meaning that earning should be way much higher than cost of running pbn.