Is it still worth it to create content sites in 2023?

[Biggy]

Yes IF you want to build quality site. Many site owners think that their site is quality but lets be honest. It's not.

If you can produce own content, own videos, pictures even better.

Is it easy? For sure not. But what I don't like with content sites is fairly slow growth compared to eCommerce. That's why I am going in eCommerce. Main con of ecommerce is a lot of testing and wasted money at start, but scaling can be huge!

 

[Execute]

My point is: you are still using anecdotal evidence. Just because my site gets hit by Google doesn't mean "SEO is dead". It can just mean that my strategy is dated or something else.

If you want to make a considered decision I'd more be asking: "Who is winning the content site game in 2023? What strategies are they using? Can I replicate that strategy with my budget/experience and does the ROI make sense?

Okay, noted. Thanks for the clarification.

Combining what MrMedia and CCarter says, that means the solution currently is massive amounts of quality content at scale (which can be costly to achieve though), as well as being active on other social media with social signals of a trustworthy brand (which can also involve significant cost).

And from what you've said, it's now left for each person to look at this current requirements to be successful with a content site, and look at his own resources and see if it's something he/she can pull off. And whether it even makes financial sense to do so for the person, given the investment and likely returns, and risk.

So in the end, it's an individualized decision, it might make sense to go for it for one person and not make sense for the next person.
Thanks for your input.

Is it easy? For sure not. But what I don't like with content sites is fairly slow growth compared to eCommerce. That's why I am going in eCommerce. Main con of ecommerce is a lot of testing and wasted money at start, but scaling can be huge!

True, every business model has its pros and cons.
What I like about content sites is that while they take time to gain traction, when they eventually gain traction they have really high profit margins, with relatively little effort at that point, cos most of the work has been put in upfront.
But this very fickle nature of Google and it's algorithms and updates is a BIG issue, and it seems to be getting more in the past year or 2.

Ecom is nice, and can scale to huge levels, but very competitive from what I understand.

Well, basically, in all businesses today, serious work is involved, one way or the other. One needs to put in the work, and a lot of it.
There's no easy way to it.

 

[Biggy]

True, every business model has its pros and cons.
What I like about content sites is that while they take time to gain traction, when they eventually gain traction they have really high profit margins, with relatively little effort at that point, cos most of the work has been put in upfront.
But this very fickle nature of Google and it's algorithms and updates is a BIG issue, and it seems to be getting more in the past year or 2.

Ecom is nice, and can scale to huge levels, but very competitive from what I understand.

Well, basically, in all businesses today, serious work is involved, one way or the other. One needs to put in the work, and a lot of it.
There's no easy way to it.

That's right. Profit margins are much higher on blog sites. But the growth can be a bit limited.

I just launched eCommerce and I can tell you it's much more work. Especially when you get stock as I ordered more than 1 ton of stock (thats not a lot) but a lot for me.

So far advertising is not going as I planned but I need to improve social proof among other things. I may add in laboratory my journey. Start is extremly challenging because people don't trust you (makes sense who would buy from a site who got only like 10 posts and 450 likes) working on that social proof is crucial.

 

[Ryuzaki]

I'm also interested in what @Ryuzaki had to say on this, please Ryu if you don't mind, kindly share your thoughts on the topic.

I don't have anything profound or insightful to say. Like any business, it's going to become a game of:

• risk analysis
• stress tolerance
• opportunity cost

I'll break down what I mean for each of these below.

Risk Analysis​

SEO is kind of like relationships in terms of finding a mate. How many times can you fail at your specific age before you don't get any more chances at failure before the window you hoped to win at closes? How many 3 and 4 year relationships can you go through before you run out of time?

How many times can you break even, which isn't a horrible outcome in SEO, before you've ran through your war chest and no longer have the funds to keep going, because you still have a mortgage and other obligations?

With SEO, the ROI is astronomical but the win rate is lower. The SERPs are a zero-sum game. For every person that outranks you, you lose a disproportionate amount of traffic. Every time Google adds another SERP feature, you lose traffic. Every time they throw in more ads, everyone loses except the ad buyers.

It's one of those situations where you bang your head against the wall, eating ramen and Taco Bell and Little Ceasars for years until you go "EUREKA!" and cash out, which is what MrMedia is always talking about.

You can stack the odds in your favor by having something worth marketing, which creates brand signals and all the SEO signals you need, and ends up getting other people to do a lot of your SEO work for you, in terms of social signals and links. This is what CCarter is always talking about.

The risk is high, no doubt. It comes down if you're an aggressive performer who gets things done, but there are still zero givens. Nothing is promised. Google can do whacked-out shit like they're doing now, which is a reaction to AI Content on Aged Domains, where they're now tweaking the dials to push EEAT, which is why there's a bunch of local (but not local to you) sites ranking, ones they know real businesses are behind.

Adjust accordingly if you can. If you can't, there are still green pastures out there that look a lot like the early days of Google. YouTube is one of them, but you're still in an SEO game there. Pinterest is one, but that's an SEO game and they have killer algo updates all the same, where you go from feast to famine over night.

Stress Tolerance​

What is your life meant to look like in your head? What did you always envision? Can you stomach financial uncertainty? Can you have it look like you'll never make it to retirement without that one giant liquidation event?

Can you stand to work way more hours for way less pay (at the start) than your peers with day jobs? Can you stand knowing others think you're a dummy and lose their respect, when really you're the only one with the balls to put those balls on the chopping block?

Can you stand the very real possibility of reaching your expiration date without having won? Is the process worth it? Is the trying worth it? Or will you have regrets?

Can you work with absolutely zero immediate gratification or immediate feedback from the algorithm? Even when you finally cross your payment thresholds, can you stand a Net 30, Net 60, and even Net 90 payout date? Can your wallet survive that?

A lot of the things people care about get put on the sideline while you try to make this work (family, children, travel, luxury, relaxation), and they have expiration dates too. Those windows close and the opportunities are gone, forever. How much are you willing to sacrifice?

Opportunity Cost​

How much of your time, resources (other people, computing power), and money can you have wrapped up in something where time is baked in as part of the algorithm? Is the hopefully predictable (it's not that predictable) ROI worth you planting these seeds and continuing to tend to them worth your time or do you have better opportunities available to you?

As someone said, with eCommerce and Pay-Per-Click advertising you can test a product, test your funnel, test your landers, test your cart, test your offers, test your ads, and be up and running pretty quickly if you have the funds to gain access to inventory and fund the campaigns. You can do this, lose money, fail a few times, and find your winner a lot faster than you can with SEO, though it may cost you a bit more money (and a lot less time).

You have to weigh these variables for yourself. Sometimes you're on top of the world and then over night you're back in the dumps again. It blows in a big way. It takes a lot of fortitude to do this financially, socially, and discipline-wise. It ain't the easy route in life, that's for sure. It's possibly a stupid route to take in life, too.

I made all of that sound negative and harped on the negatives because those are the hurdles and road blocks that matter. We all know what the reward is. But few want to be honest about the actual journey.

 

[Hanuman]

If you have a content site already, keep at it. If you are starting one today, be cautious about what these new things mean for your business - evergreen niches are a big no IMO (ChatGPT style bots have already crawled all the information and can spit out answers, and that is only going to become better over time). So, in the 18 months it takes for you to hit a sizeable audience, you do not know where ChatGPT style search engines will be.

This is the way I look at it - there are people who gamble in crypto and have made millions. I wish I could make those millions too. But I am wary of dipping my toes into anything I cannot fully explain. The Bitcoin ups and downs do not have logic to it (at least according to me). So I am not investing money there.

Content sites are an opportunity cost of your time and money. As things stand, I cannot fully explain what way everything is going to turn out. So I am not going to put my money in a business I imagine would be powered by the likes of Mediavine or Adthrive.

That is not to say that I am moving out of content sites. I am changing my business model.

Hitting those traffic numbers to make money off ads is not my goal anymore. Instead, I am focusing on building a branded email list- you can sell them ads, products, or even build your own software. That's up to you.

And I am investing in content to build up this email list. So if Google usurps my content site, I will invest in Facebook, or Tiktok or whatever the pop trend is. If I am making money off an email list, I do not have to worry if one trend goes bust and another one comes about. I just pivot and keep making the same amount of money.

 

[Execute]

I don't have anything profound or insightful to say. Like any business, it's going to become a game of:

• risk analysis
• stress tolerance
• opportunity cost

I'll break down what I mean for each of these below.

Wow. That's a LOT of insight packed in one post.
It's paradoxical you started by saying you don't have anything insightful to say, meanwhile it's loaded with a whole lot of insight.
Many thanks for your frank take on things. It definitely helps to balance things out and helps people take an informed decision.
Wish I could like your post twice, lol.

I just launched eCommerce and I can tell you it's much more work. Especially when you get stock as I ordered more than 1 ton of stock (thats not a lot) but a lot for me.

Man, 1 ton of products seems like a whole lot of inventory to me when launching an ecommerce site, unless your products are really heavy items like huge rocks or something, lol.
Wish you all the best with your new ecom site. Hope it gains traction soon.

If you have a content site already, keep at it. If you are starting one today, be cautious about what these new things mean for your business -

Interesting take on things. The ChatGPT thingy is really worrisome for content sites IMO, especially as it's still in it's early stages and you can't predict how advanced it will get over time, knowing how tech tends to improve with each iteration.

Even email lists are not fully safe as a business model going forward as email filters get smarter and smarter and continue filtering out emails from inboxes more and more to land in Promotions tab which most people hardly look at.

Well, change is the only constant thing in life.
We have to keep adapting to these changes and evolving with the changes and finding our best way around them.

In the end it's all an individualized decision which business model to pursue, but I'm sure the points all of you guys have raised in this thread will help anyone consider it well and make better informed decisions.

 

[secretagentdad]

Interesting take on things. The ChatGPT thingy is really worrisome for content sites IMO, especially as it's still in it's early stages and you can't predict how advanced it will get over time, knowing how tech tends to improve with each iteration.

Even email lists are not fully safe as a business model going forward as email filters get smarter and smarter and continue filtering out emails from inboxes more and more to land in Promotions tab which most people hardly look at.

Well, change is the only constant thing in life.

If direct isnt your biggest, you’re not sticky.

 

[Execute]

If direct isnt your biggest, you’re not sticky.

Don't get you, can you shed more light?

 

[secretagentdad]

Do what ever pony show you have to do to train your visitors to come back all the time.
Do it on your home page.
Anything short of that and media platforms just profiling and selling the same audience they sold you to your competitors are gonna eat you slowly over time. Nibble by nibble.
Direct are your only people where nobody else can get between you and them.
Something as simple as a big heading Text saying check back weekly for more updates can take you from a non compounding website to a compounding website. Changing your name to something more memorable can also help. Way to many people have the awfullest website names that they’re religiously committed to for what ever reason.

 

[fatGPT]

Wouldn't making an email list be the best way to get direct traffic?

And wouldn't that mean learning email/newsletter marketing, building a brand, creating content for people who love to read from you?

So I guess you gotta change your mindset from being a website owner to a content creator.

 

[illmasterj]

I guess you gotta change your mindset from being a website owner to a content creator.

Website owners employ content creators.

 

[grown]

Every time something major happens in the SERPs, there is a die off of people shortly after who just give up for one reason or another. Great time to snatch up their sites if you've got experience/time/funds to turn them around.

 

[RiverStyx]

As a noob to this stuff, I couldn't say either way, but as a searcher, I can say that as time goes on, more and more I'm inclined to look for YT videos as opposed to text. Of course it depends on what I am looking for at the time, but often, I'd rather have someone explain something on video, than have to comb through mounds of text. The downside to that, is there are a many idiots droning on about nothing and taking forever to get to the meat. Anyway, the point is that I think for many niches it's probably likely that the future is more and more dominated by video. But I'm just guessing based on my own search behavior and that of a few others I know.

I appreciate that I am an outlier to most searching on the web, but video is my last resort. I read extremely quickly and can process mounds of text far faster than people on a video can speak. So, my preference is to read. I know not everyone is like this - hell I can see the stats on the popularity of video as much as the next person so I know I'm an outlier simply based on stats. Also, it pains me to have to listen to people go on and on before getting to the 'meat' as you've mentioned. I usually watch videos on 2x speed to ease the mental anguish lol.

 

[Dreamchaser]

I appreciate that I am an outlier to most searching on the web, but video is my last resort. I read extremely quickly and can process mounds of text far faster than people on a video can speak. So, my preference is to read. I know not everyone is like this - hell I can see the stats on the popularity of video as much as the next person so I know I'm an outlier simply based on stats. Also, it pains me to have to listen to people go on and on before getting to the 'meat' as you've mentioned. I usually watch videos on 2x speed to ease the mental anguish lol.

Not everyone would want to spend time watching a tutorial video. Some of the videos tend to be 'long winded'. I would prefer to read and quickly scan through an article to pick up the important points than to sit down watching a long drawn-out video.

 

[breedingsuccess]

Not everyone would want to spend time watching a tutorial video. Some of the videos tend to be 'long winded'. I would prefer to read and quickly scan through an article to pick up the important points than to sit down watching a long drawn-out video.

Long winded videos is the reason I don't use YouTube anymore. It's just a trash pile of people talking unnecessarily long.

 

[alexsimon]

The question is not about whether new sites are worth it, rather what type of niche sites are worth it in 2023 and beyond.

I think sites that target super long tail question queries are the most likely to be affected by future updates and integration of AI chatbots into search engines. I would not create sites that would target a keyword like "What are the best ways to open a chess game" as they will be easily answered by chatbots in 2-3 years time.

Secondly, looking at trends, some niches are oversaturated and they had a boom during covid (Gardening, DIY). I wouldn't touch them. Sure, I bet there are opportunities to pick up in those niches as well but discovery of those opportunities may take up too much time.

Other than that, there is no better time to create content sites! I mean it

 

[Execute]

Every time something major happens in the SERPs, there is a die off of people shortly after who just give up for one reason or another. Great time to snatch up their sites if you've got experience/time/funds to turn them around.

I don't think this is just about giving up.
I think it's more about a realistic assessment of the situation and where things are heading in future regarding content sites as we know it.
It's like how portable CD players and Walkmans took a walk with the advent of mp3 players and digital music platforms. It's just change.

Anyway, I sincerely wish you luck in your content site snatching ventures. Kindly update us on how it goes.
If you're not pivoting the content site to an omnichannel content brand (which in itself takes quite some effort and investment) instead of a regular content site, chances are that you may not be very happy with the outcome in future, given the trajectory of regular content sites.

I appreciate that I am an outlier to most searching on the web, but video is my last resort. I read extremely quickly and can process mounds of text far faster than people on a video can speak. So, my preference is to read.

I'm completely with you on this. I prefer articles to watching videos, unless it's on complex topics that are undisputably better on video.
For everything else, I prefer text articles where I can skim quickly. In fact, I actively avoid youtube videos in SERPs, unless it's something that really requires I watch a video.

The question is not about whether new sites are worth it, rather what type of niche sites are worth it in 2023 and beyond.

So in your own opinion, what type of niche sites are worth it in 2023 and beyond?
As I noticed you didn't discuss that in your response, but rather mentioned sites you would like to avoid.
Are you implying that most other types of niche sites are worth it to go after currently, other than the types you mentioned to avoid?
Would just like to understand you better.

Other than that, there is no better time to create content sites! I mean it

Is this assertion based on facts or just simply basic optimism?
If based on facts, can you please share what are these facts that are the basis for your assertion?
For the sake of our own education....

 

[Darth]

If you're not pivoting the content site to an omnichannel content brand

Can you expand more on what you mean by "omnichannel content brand"?

 

[Execute]

Can you expand more on what you mean by "omnichannel content brand"?

Omnichannel content brand in this case simply means going from a regular content site simply posting articles on your website and then optimizing them like we usually do via onpage and offpage SEO, to creating content across as many platforms as possible to reach as many people as possible and drive traffic from as many sources as possible.

So instead of just creating articles on your website, you're also creating videos and posting on youtube and Tiktok, as well as posting social media content on social media sites as Pinterest, Instagram, Facebook and Twitter, and actively growing your following on all those platforms, as well as developing and growing your email lists.

So that they all drive traffic to your site to reduce the percentage of traffic SEO makes up, and hence cushion the effect of algorithm changes and SEO upheavals on your overall traffic.
And in doing so it may also boost your site's SEO by giving it brand signals in Google's eyes, making it appear as a reputable brand rather than some fly-by-night operation, as Google believes any reputable site now should have some degree of social signals associated with it. And google is giving more prominence to brands, unfortunately for us as individual site owners.
So all that basically goes to make your site seem more like a major brand in your niche, which may translate to higher rankings.

So we all basically have to make a mindset shift from just being a regular content site owner (focused on our content site alone), to being a content brand owner (focused on creating content across all platforms to simply spread the "good news" of your content everywhere).

And we have to do so reaching out to people on whatever platforms they are in, rather than waiting for them to come in to our site via SEO which may no longer happen as much as we want.
Even big brands like CNN now talk about changing their own focus too to omnichannel content- posting less on their site and more on the platforms where people are, basically going out to meet the people where they are.
I saw an article on that change in their own philosophy some time ago.

So I think that's about it.
Omnichannel simply refers to using all channels possible to create content and drive traffic.
But of course that's much more work than focusing on just regular content sites as we know it, (which is basically writing or outsourcing our articles, posting them, and optimizing them onpage and offpage.)

I think it was @CCarter that made the whole omnichannel thingy clear to me in one of his posts here sometime ago, when people were analyzing why sites were getting hit. And he said most of the regular content sites he had observed getting hit had really poor brand signals and needed to pivot to omnichannel content.
(Although now even major sites with strong brand signals are getting hit, so it's definitely not that alone, but that might help for a lot of us.)
And I've also seen a lot of other articles that support that view, and I think it just makes sense.

EDIT:
Just realized it's in this very same thread that Ccarter made it clear that omnichannel content was the way to go.

It's on page 1 of this thread.

Here's his post if you're interested:

The people complaining on this forum about indexing problems always seem to only be doing SEO as their ONLY marketing channel. There is no brand signal to Google that this brand/website/domain is worth being indexed.

All the people complaining are using a 2007 SEO playbook and are confused why in 2023 it's not working.

I always ask the same questions, thinking, "maybe this time it's different with this guy's problem."

Nope.

Most people having problems, indexing primarily, having glaring obvious problems. And they all revolve around brand signals being non-existent.

Do you think Google would take the time to create Twitter carousels, YouTube carousels, Pinterest carousels, TikTok carousels,Google News groupings, People Also Ask Questions, Wiki content, and all the other types of media and NOT use those brand signals within their main index?!?!

Wouldn't activities on those platforms, especially recent activities, showcase this is a brand worth monitoring?! The answer is glaringly obvious.

I'll answer the OP question, is it worth it to create a content site in 2023? No, not if SEO is your only marketing path to generating traffic.

If you treat it as a business with multiple sources of traffic through different marketing channels, magically the SEO kicks in - better than you can imagine, almost as if Google is monitoring brand signals...

 

[MrMedia]

I literally cannot wait to be able to post my next AMA on content sites. There is meme level fear mongering going on here. I'm thinking of starting two more content sites over the next three months that will be pure SEO plays. Make of that what you will.

 

[secretagentdad]

Dab on us daddy.
You seem to have the magic touch.

 

[Execute]

I literally cannot wait to be able to post my next AMA on content sites. There is meme level fear mongering going on here. I'm thinking of starting two more content sites over the next three months that will be pure SEO plays. Make of that what you will.

Wow, that's great to hear.
Please do kindly post the next AMA as soon as you can, and please let us know when you do, will go a long way to help douse some of the fear mongering you're observing here...cos I definitely do fear for the future of content sites from what I've been seeing in the past 1 year.

I've also been eagerly awaiting an update on your Volume content strategy thread, please kindly do an update soonest if you don't mind, once you can find the time.
Many thanks in advance.

 

[Darth]

I literally cannot wait to be able to post my next AMA on content sites. There is meme level fear mongering going on here. I'm thinking of starting two more content sites over the next three months that will be pure SEO plays. Make of that what you will.

I think it's important to discuss all possible outcomes and what's going on. I wouldn't expect someone to stop being a publisher based on this thread alone, and if someone can shut down many of the fears posted here then great.