People selling seo that have no idea what they're doing?

[Trav]

Is that okay??? I've only been looking around on forums for a short time but I see so many people selling all these "GREAT" seo services but why aren't they just using it for their own sites?? I talked a bit about this in my last thread but it deserves its own discussion.

Is that frowned upon in this industry?

I know if I went to a customer's home with my main business and had no clue what I was doing that I would get hit with a lawsuit instantly. Is there no regulation or certification that you need to charge people for seo? It fucking scares me that I could start selling seo services tomorrow without having any idea what I'm doing. And I don't even know enough to be able to tell if the person I hire is the real deal or just trying to fake it until they make it while putting my entire website at risk.

I can't even fathom how someone decides to start selling a service that they aren't even familiar with. That's like the bottom of the barrel. Is that even frowned upon in this industry or is it par for the course?

I didn't know what to expect when I started looking at online marketing for my biz but so far it's left a really bad taste in my mouth (no offense.) Do online guys take their businesses a lot less seriously or something? That's the vibe I'm getting. Maybe Im just in over my head or maybe Im already past this and should just go back to whats been working offline.

 

[MetaData]

It happens all the time. Once our marketplace goes live in the near future, we're going to do a really thorough job of vetting people and ensuring that they're being completely upfront with their offers so I invite you to peruse that once the time comes.

Other than that... If you aren't sure about something, just ask! We've got your back

 

[harris]

Trav there are bad carpenters and the good carpenters hate them. There are bad cooks and the good ones hate them. There are bad doctors and the good ones hate them. It's not unique to seo or online marketing. I haven't really encountered all these people that have no idea what they're talking about that you're mentioning - maybe your budget is too small to attract real professionals?

 

[chaddicus.]

It sounds like the issue is more of your lack of knowledge than anything. I don't mean that offensively, but I've dealt with a lot of people who get mad because of really unrealistic expectations when it comes to SEO. I agree with harris, there are good providers and bad providers in every industry and you need to be acutely aware of that.
Are you talking about link building services that you have looked into or actual SEO providers like an individual or agency you're paying to rank you? In both you have to do you due diligence. With link building services you have to understand what is actually ranking now a days, the time frame that you are realistically looking at, and if you want to go black/grey/whitehat. And that also goes for picking an internet marketer.

 

[SheIsaBlogger]

Do your DD and it should be ok Referrals go a long way... and take the time to actually understand what their strategy is A friend told me that you shouldn't hire an SEO if they are trying to keep everything a secret from you.

 

[RiverStyx]

Or hire one that will work on an ROI figure for you. There are lots of deals to be done with those that have the skills to effect change.

 

[MetaData]

Yeah looking back over this I need to clarify there are definitely people out there that know their way around the serps and that offer their services for hire, and @RiverStyx brings up a good point too.

Totally understand your frustration, @Trav... maybe it would be a good idea to keep familiarizing yourself with what to expect from seo before hiring someone? It's a lot easier to outsource something once you have at least a basic working knowledge of it.

Good luck and keep us updated, and of course don't be shy if you have any questions or if you want any more specific advice.

 

[synt4x3rr0r]

@Trav I have seen this before and would definitely go with an organization that ranks well themselves, can be realistic with time/performance expectations, will clearly explain their process, and has a reasonable length of contract if applicable. More importantly, seek out your SEO, don't have someone place undue pressure on you about it from a cold call. Good luck out there!

 

[EvolutionVision]

Many financial planners are poor.
Many marketers only make money selling to marketers
Many doctors are unhealthy
And many SEO's can only sell services.

1) Some SEO's know some good tactics for ranking, but have zero business sense and thus their projects always fail. These guys are gold if you can get them on your team, as they are always flat out broke but have skills.
2) Many more "SEO's" are just trying to make a quick buck, without giving a damn about future consequences [insert many BST sellers here].
3) Finally, there are those who have lots of feel-good theories, but they have not tested jack shit because they are out of the game themselves [insert 90% of Moz posts here].

All of the above is why it's hard to find a good SEO to hire. Once they get good enough (like myself) you just can't hire them personally. You literally cannot pay enough to be worth their time unless you're a massive company offering equity.

My recommendation: Don't trust anyone without skin in the game

​

 

[ModernMarketeer]

1) Some SEO's know some good tactics for ranking, but have zero business sense and thus their projects always fail. These guys are gold if you can get them on your team, as they are always flat out broke but have skills.
2) Many more "SEO's" are just trying to make a quick buck, without giving a damn about future consequences [insert many BST sellers here].
3) Finally, there are those who have lots of feel-good theories, but they have not tested jack shit because they are out of the game themselves [insert 90% of Moz posts here].

This is why as a more traditional marketeer I'm so keen to learn more about the industry. Right now I feel people could easily take advantage due to my lack of knowledge but with some solid digital understanding I feel we can avoid 99% of these companies.

 

[thehobbster]

Before you embark on outsourcing or releasing aspects of your business to someone else, you have to have been in the trenches long enough to know what it is you're attempting to accomplish and HOW it should be done.

"I don't know how to do this and it'll save money and time if I just pay someone to do it" is a very risky proposition, especially in a world where there are liars, cheats, yes-men, and "i'll learn as I go" mentalities out there.

Having a complete overview of every aspect of your business is a good starting point, but digging into any specific piece before releasing it from your hands is a huge safeguard for this kind of crap. You don't have to master it, but dammit be familiar with it so you know if you're getting conned or not.

 

[turbin3]

The more a person learns how to do the work themselves, and how the work is done, the better they will be able to legitimately vet potential providers of those services. Although there is a point of diminishing returns there, if your goal is to ultimately hire/contract a person to fulfill a service, I believe there is a lot of value in learning deeper than a surface level of knowledge about a particular subject, at least enough to be able to call bullshit on incompetent businesses and individuals.

 

[ratman]

Sounds crooked to me. Part of the problem is that there's so much misinformation about SEO these days. I got burned back in the day but now I do almost everything myself and make sure almost everything is reversible.

 

[Golan]

I don't think SEO can be licensing in any country. In my country, your example wouldn't work because too few professions need certification at all here. Yes a customer can sue you - but only for a damage or a really bad result, not for the fact you don't know your profession.

There are so many sites of "SEO companies" that look good and all legit, and for people from outside the industry they might look incredibly respectful. Imagine yourself, relocated in another city or even country, and you need to call a plumber... Soooo many ads around. All your neighbors recommend different ones. How to chose?

This way, the guys that can sell themselves and speak beautiful, are selling their SEO services to people who don't have a clue. Or - another extreme - to n00bs on BHW.

If you are SEO'er yourself, you just don't buy beautiful words, '1st page guaranteed!'. You know what should be done with your site and you just go and look for the best supplier out there.

 

[old-sun]

that is why its all ways best to get prove from then on what they are ranking for right know and how long they have been ranking and what sites do they have them selfs if they dont have any then they are clearly just have an quick buck

one i like to use it asked them the names off an few big g algo updates while talkign to them and see how quick they reply then sure be an seo if they know that they are an ture seo

 

[jamesagate]

Is that okay??? I've only been looking around on forums for a short time but I see so many people selling all these "GREAT" seo services but why aren't they just using it for their own sites??

As someone who runs an agency and an eCommerce business I get to see both sides... Yes there are some crappy SEOs out there and yes if many of the hyped up services that are out there were as good as they suggested then these people would just rank their own websites HOWEVER, as someone else in this thread points out there are shit service people in every walk of life. More importantly though I think it is wrong to automatically assume people run an agency because they are no good at SEO and therefore can't rank a website. There is so much more to running a successful web business than just a bit of SEO... myself, I prefer to work with clients through my agency who have exciting business models, clear ambitions, a team in place to execute on that plan and connections/intimate knowledge of their industry that an outsider couldn't hope for.

Could I throw up a crappy affiliate page and outrank some of our clients and make a quick buck? Yes. However that would be short-sighted since I couldn't hope to compete with some of my clients in a real business sense, it would all just be short-lived gains. I want to build a real service business with clients I see as true partners not a fly-by-night operator churning out crappy affiliate websites.

We've worked with some clients from our inception, a handful of which have grown from $x,xxx per month accounts to $xx,xxx per month accounts. We get to do what we do best and they get to do what they do best, we all share in the spoils usually since the account tends to grow over time as we prove ourself.

Does it always work that way? Of course not. There have been a number of occasions where I thought "fuck, we've just helped someone rank for X" and then they start earning thousands and now they've ditched us.

But by and large the model works. There's no way I could have a business in every market that our clients operate in but I have "exposure" to that market - in a manner of speaking - whilst maintaining our focus on SEO.

I know not all SEO providers are structured in this way or have this kind of mentality - 90% are hit it and quit it but again that is the same in every walk of life.

In fact the eCommerce business I am now a part-owner of was formerly a client. By becoming more formally involved it means I can do what I do best (SEO stuff) and I share in the successes of a business that I couldn't have established on my own (because of contacts, industry knowledge etc).

 

[Ricky]

It's a matter of making money and doing what you believe is right. Many sellers believe that what they do is right and it may have worked for them in the past, others see it as a quick buck and are very devious. Keep in mind most seo service sellers are apart of blackhat in some form or way and they are likely to have lower morals than the average white hat person. Therefore they are just here to make a quick buck. Once they do what they said they would in some form they will consider it job well done.

 

[eliquid]

I think SEO services fall into a couple categories:

1. People selling SEO as a ranking service - This involves a lot of effort and thought, but just like you have good home builders and sloppy ones, you will find the same here.

2. People who sell "links" or "research" or "onpage" stuff. Notice they never promise rankings in their sales pitch, but they *might* say others have ranked ( when, in 2007? ). They don't sell the strategy or the process, just the widget you THINK will help you.

Its kinda like if you wanted to be a great baseball player. I could be a good or sloppy coach and teach you all the strategy and reasons why, etc.

OR I could just say, "Hey, buy this aluminum bat and this special glove, it's helped others go Pro".

Do you see the difference?