How can I rank 500+ websites?

[Concept]

Yes, no joke 500 websites. Here's the story, and the questions are below.

The Story
In order to get some extra $$$ to finance my new project, I've find myself currently in negotiation with a company to oversee to growth of 500+ sites. Each site is geotargeted to a specific service in a specific suburb. Much like my locksmith website but x500. One of the sites is a national based branded site which is earning considerably more.

Each of these sites runs off an ecommerce frame work developed by the company. The sites are owned by the company however, they have a specific service provider in the area that looks after the calls/orders from that site.

The sites themselves have not been updated in 3-4 years. They are not mobile friendly, have over optimised onsite SEO, and much more, yet they still earn money. The company has been meaning to update and grow them, but management hasn't had the time to really deal with them (they have other assets that they have been focussed on).

This is where I come in.

My role would be to oversee the growth of these sites. I would have access to their staff - particularly the technical personel, graphics designer and possibly content writers etc. The specifics still need to be verified.

I will get a cut in the profits, which is decent now, but can be greatly increased.

They are keen to have me on board, but no contract has been signed yet.

The Dilema
If it was one, two or three sites, I would have no dramas. I'm confident in local SEO and I can easily see where I can make improvements. There are some easy wins that I can implement that should see a shift in each sites performance. However, times that by 500...it gets a little overwhelming.

I have some ideas how I can handle this, but I'd love to hear what ideas you guys have. Does anyone have experience dealing with this many sites? How would you approach ranking 500+ local service sites?

 

[Jitsiereveld]

No experience with that many sites for the same company. But if they aren't competing with themselves locally, wouldn't it kind of be the same process for each of them just in a different area? Even though the number seems overwhelming thinking of the project as a whole but I feel like it would be easy after you fixed up a couple. Rinse and repeat with different city terms for the rest, one at a time.

I could be wrong if I misunderstood you somewhere. Great questions.

 

[Concept]

No experience with that many sites for the same company. But if they aren't competing with themselves locally, wouldn't it kind of be the same process for each of them just in a different area? Even though the number seems overwhelming thinking of the project as a whole but I feel like it would be easy after you fixed up a couple. Rinse and repeat with different city terms for the rest, one at a time.

I could be wrong if I misunderstood you somewhere. Great questions.

From what I can see, they aren't competing with themselves. There are a few exception.

Yeah rinse and repeat is pretty much how I was going to approach it. I'm thinking once I've done the first 2-3, I'll build a team around it and just smash it out.

 

[animalstyle]

Since you're looking at doing a ton of upfront work and share in the profits, is there a way you can consolidate things from a domain, backend, and management standpoint?

Is there a reason all these sites must be separate?

 

[Andrewkar]

I'm sorry, but you can't rank those 500+ sites, unless you have like few VERY long months to do this. And especially if this is any touch of UPFRONT... Don't go there please (at least not under your legitimate name )

 

[Concept]

Since you're looking at doing a ton of upfront work and share in the profits, is there a way you can consolidate things from a domain, backend, and management standpoint?

Is there a reason all these sites must be separate?

From my understanding each of these domains are made for a specific company that takes care of all the enquiries from that specific site. The company still owns the site, and gets a % of the profits made through the site. In short, I can't just redirect them to one domain that takes care of everything.

I might be able to consolidate some things in the back end. The sites all run off two templates. My understanding is if they update the template it is automatically updated on all the sites using that template. Again I'm not 100% how it works, however that is my limited understanding at this point in time.

It is also the same for their ecommerce engine. For example, if I update some product information, it updates on all sites. However, when I go to the checkout and pay, it goes to the companies main site for final payment.

Regarding management, I'm not to sure how I would consolidate here. Essentially, I would be the one managing these sites.

Here's something to look into... The company bought a competitor out a while again, and these sites came as a part of that. The company has their own systems etc for their main money sites which works on a similar framework. I can look at how I can potentially consolidate these sites with their existing structure.

I'm sorry, but you can't rank those 500+ sites, unless you have like few VERY long months to do this. And especially if this is any touch of UPFRONT... Don't go there please (at least not under your legitimate name )

I don't know exactly what you are saying. Can you elaborate?

I plan to improve the top 2-3 sites so I can make the most profit as quickly as possible. I will use the process I use for these sites as a basis for an "instruction manual" that I can build a team around. There is no way in hell I'm going to take on these sites by myself. By the sounds of it, the company will cover the expenses. I also have existing employees at the company that I can use as a resource.

I do agree that there will be some upfront work before I see considerable income. I'm thinking I might ask for a flat fee of $XXXXX for the first couple of months before relying soley on the profits made. This will mitigate the risk of taking this project on.

 

[turbin3]

I do agree that there will be some upfront work before I see considerable income. I'm thinking I might ask for a flat fee of $XXXXX for the first couple of months before relying soley on the profits made. I will be taking a risk taking this project on.

Best recommendation I can give is, cover your ass. Everything MUST be in the contract, and have it reviewed by your own lawyer. With projects like this, at that sort of scale, the ways you can intentionally (on their part) or inadvertently lose your ass are many.

 

[Ryuzaki]

First thing I'd do is say no, but if I said yes I'd get an extreme contract like @turbin3 recommends. If something goes wrong, someone will get blamed, and guess who that'll be? The outsider that was given the reins.

Since it's all templated, the second thing I'd do is create a responsive design and optimize it to be as fast as possible. I'd get these easy wins that might result in a quick 10-20% or more bump in revenue even.

Then I'd de-optimize, like you said, starting from the most-earning to the least earning. It might be one fell swoop with the templating.

After that I have no clue. If you have access to rankings or Webmaster Tools and can see which keywords are ready to pop, you might have a path forward on the biggest ROI targets.

I wouldn't even get into link building at all (yet, if at all).

What are they doing about PPC or Social Media advertising?

 

[Concept]

First thing I'd do is say no

So I can understand where you are coming from, please elaborate on why you would say no?

What are they doing about PPC or Social Media advertising?

PPC and Social marketing is non-existent for these sites. The branded nation-wide site has social profiles on the main social sites, but it hasn't been updated since 2013. All the location based sites just link to the branded sites social profiles.

 

[animalstyle]

Ryu covers the what if if something goes bad, but it's also worth talking about what happens if thing go well.

Even when things are good, everyone has a pain threshold for spending. If you start earning crazy amounts of money, it's hard for anyone to cut checks when they get big enough. It's easy to start asking why you're paying all that money when suns are large enough that everyone notices them as they roll by. Next step could easily be how to cut that spending off, especially if you've handed them the knowledge and blueprint.

For that reason I'd echo above that you should be in an iron clad contract that goes into detail for the future possibilities.

Good to hear that so much control is handled centrally and pushed out across the sites. That makes it more doable.

 

[Steve Brownlie]

So I can understand where you are coming from, please elaborate on why you would say no?

PPC and Social marketing is non-existent for these sites. The branded nation-wide site has social profiles on the main social sites, but it hasn't been updated since 2013. All the location based sites just link to the branded sites social profiles.

I don't want to put words into his mouth about why he would say no, but from my perspective it's unlikely you're getting the right deal. Let's say you're an experienced SEO and some local business comes to you. Figure out what you'd charge to 'get them ranking as quickly as possible' ie so this project actually gets done at some point. It might be 3 months work at $3k/mo then some work after depending on how it goes.

So that's $9k x 500 sites = $4,500,000

If you're getting any less money than that then they're doing very well out of you on the deal. "Building a team" sounds easy but the overhead in managing a team that will be responsible effectively for 500 clients... and delivering anything quick enough that they see results in a reasonable timeframe (<2 years) that's definitely a multi million dollar business right there you're proposing to build.

If I'm wrong and they are fronting those kinds of amounts... good luck... sounds like a fun project. As others have said, make sure the contract is locked down for these kind of sums.

 

[turbin3]

Exactly as Steve and Ryuzaki said, the reason why is because a person's sanity is worth more. Projects like this, at that scale, always have the potential to become a beast of their own that does not pay what it should, as the budget to do so is generally not realistic or hard to sell to lots of companies. More often than not, stuff like that becomes "minion" work for unlucky in-house SEO's.

Another thing, more generally for anyone it might help. Pricing yourself. With complex projects like this, it can be really hard for a lot of people. Take what you think it's worth, and right off the bat, add at least 25% on top of that. Now, honestly think about what you think is the most you could possibly get for the project. Maybe that adds another 10-25%+ on top of what you may have thought is "reasonable". Now you have a starting point for the sell.

With large and complex projects, forget about "giving a good deal". This may not apply to anyone here, but it's an issue I've seen a lot of people have, causing them to really under-sell themselves. If someone is looking to have you optimize/manage 500 websites, if they're looking to have you take on a complex project with high ROI potential, they goddamn well better pay for it. They should thank you for the opportunity to utilize your expertise and experience as well.

 

[jäger]

 

[Ryuzaki]

The reason I said I wouldn't take on this job is for a lot of reasons... I did list out some easily achievable items you could do based on the templating, which will allow them to scale. If it doesn't scale I wouldn't touch it even with a 500 person team with 1 person assigned to each site.

Whether this goes right or wrong, the numbers are never going to add up in their head or in reality:

• The numbers aren't going to make sense for the buyer for any real, non-scalable marketing.
• If something goes wrong, they're going to sue you or try to not pay you or break the contract.
• If something goes right, they'll likely do the same. Why continue to pay you a percentage when they can screw you over instead?

This is also one of those jobs where it's a big enough company that they're minds are simply not going to be in alignment with reality, in terms of what it's going to cost versus what will come back in. When you say yes, you're hanging a giant red target on your back right where the knife will go.

A contract can only protect you from so much, and then defending it can ruin you, especially if you lose. You need another layer of protection on top of the contract which would be managing expectations, which might be impossible to do with a disengaged CEO or Marketing Director who spends all day putting in his office.

I'd attempt to renegotiate and only do the scaleable activities like the ones I mentioned above. You can do those by yourself without a team, even. If you can get milestone payments like 50% upfront and the last 50% upon completion, before results even begin to show, you've at least made sure you're not wasting your time. Then if you can still score some tiny equity, you might win in a huge way too. But the idea of trying to drastically improve the rankings of 500 sites when it comes to off-page elements is insanity. There's barely time to do it right for one site, no matter the size of the team.

Also I'm bundling all of the above, which is overwhelmingly negative (to me, I could be way wrong too), and weighing it alongside Opportunity Cost. What are you having to say "no" to in order to say "yes" to this project? I realize that this could be making you a fortune and it's even a part of your own empire to a degree, but I'm pretty radical about making sure I'm building my own properties on land I control and making myself rich instead of someone else. But at the same time, if the iron is hot sometimes the smartest thing to do is to iron someone else's clothes for 'em, depending on the circumstances.

If it was me and I needed the job, I'd probably agree to deal with anything templated. I'd take it responsive, optimize the on-page aspects of the templates, optimize the speed, de-optimize the product listings, and get out of there with some form of big ass one-off payment. Maybe I'd argue for a fraction of the percentage they're offering you to go all the way too, just in case a lot of this has nearly no SERP competition and you make a substantial difference. But I'd sell it as "Let me get you to where all you need to worry about is active marketing, then you can take stock of the situation and plan your next move. Let's take this one step at a time."

 

[Concept]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I've taken it all in and slept on it. After weight everything up and assessing how this opportunity would fit into my short and long term goals, I've decided not to take the deal. I'll be emailing them this afternoon letting them know.

Again, thanks for all the input. Many of you highlighted things that I hadn't thought of and helped me in making a confident decision

 

[jayk]

It's all been said here already, but 500 sites is a massive beast that gets overwhelming really fast.

During the EMD rush, I had 450 sites and a team of 22 people helping me push them forward, and it was always 1 step forward, 5 steps back. There was never a light at the end of the tunnel.

I'm partially grey and probably contributed to a heart attack I'll end up having later in life because of that experience.

Ryu said it best, the amount of time and energy you'll be putting into growing their business could be put into your own. You're guaranteed to be better off, and won't be constantly worrying about their money-hungry lawyers looking to take it out from under you at any given moment -- and they will do it.