Gather Round Hustlers That's If You're Still Living

CCarter

CCarter

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But serious WTF is going on in this industry? A couple of weeks ago someone came to me trying to get some SEO work done, they had a nice $5K monthly budget, I told them I'll find someone that's worth their salt and can get results. Here I am two weeks later and can't find a single sole. It's crazy cause it's an easy industry too. I've even done the preliminary research and saw the niche was like taking candy from a baby, but I can't find anyone that's serious. And then the people that turn down the work turn around a couple of days later asking for advice about their client that's paying them $500 a month... WAT? Maybe the people that I approached either are scared to let me down or maybe just don't have the confidence. So that's a WTF scratch on my head.

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Around the same time a business in Bal Harbour, where we ball harder, wanted me to find a marketing person to higher on staff and I train them and do my consulting thing. No problem I thought, I threw the dragnet out and couldn't find a single soul to do the work.

I got another opportunity of someone wanting to hire a marketer that will be trained on marketing, moved to the city, and even get a nice bonus if the project pulls in some wins at the end of a year, you know our biggest concern? Finding a fucking hustler that's willing to move, get a salary, AND get a bonus ontop of it all - that is GOING TO BE TRAINED all at the same time. What the fuck world am I living in here?

So then I had another company come to me and asked me to find 3 marketers to pay $50-60K a year too, I train them onsite and then let them run wild. Imagine to my surprise where I can't find a decent person willing to hustle to get any of the positions? I've got my team scouring universities and colleges in the area - fucking blank stares.

Where the fuck is everyone? Is everyone just in line for their Obama checks? I can't even give money away to hustlers. I feel like if I gave someone $100K worth of gold bricks right now they'd ask me to take it and deposit it into their bank account for them.

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Give me a fucking break - so I gotta ask where have all the hustlers gone? Cause I can't find any, through official and unofficial channels.

I got people and companies every week contacting me to find a single good SEO, ONE single person that can present themselves in a professional manner, and I can't find a single one? What's going on with this online marketing industry?

I know we are in transition from being a basement dwelling operation to putting on suits and ties, but overall I can't find a quality person that can prove results and can't get past my bullshit detector. I can ask some of the most basic questions and they are completely befuddled as if I'm speaking a different language.

Imagine hiring for a web security gig and the candidate states they are a pen-tester and got all these nonsense certifications, okay, so then you throw a softball at them. "What's the difference between a CSRF and XSS exploit?" If they look at you with a blank stare you know they aren't qualified and are just bullshitting their way through the industry - so we get rid of them.

If I ask you simple SEO questions or even ask you what some acronyms mean and you can't answer you clearly aren't the person we need. But if your degree is marketing and you can't answer marketing 101 questions I have to wonder WTF are they teaching in schools these days?

90% of my problems are offline, but even coming online it's like, where the fuck have all the hustlers gone? Do I have to get on my knees and beg you to take these companies' money or am I over-reacting?

I want to figure out what's going on in this industry on a mentality/psychological basis. Overall "web marketing" as well as drilled down "SEO" or "PPC" if you want. Are you guys seeing the same things?
 
Agree 100% - I'm no hiring veteran with 10+ years of experience or anything but things just seem crazy to me.

On one hand I hear about how hard it is to get a job these days for young people with degrees, the economy sucks and high unemployment and all that. But when I'm trying to hire people in the 40-50k range for entry level positions for recent grads or mid 20s with a little experience it's very hard to find anyone that has what I would call "work ethic and critical thinking skills".

I'm not even talking skills here - the training isn't that hard IF you have the "work ethic and critical thinking skills". But both are seriously lacking.

Similarly we pay $10+ a hour starting in a nice office where you get FULL internet access when not talking calls for phone support people and free snacks in the kitchen. Over the last 2 years we've had to fire about 2/3 of the hires because they cannot show up on time consistently or not call in 1 hour into their shift Monday morning to let us know they are "sick". We are building a base of great people but it's tough. I don't see how any of those people(the ones we had to fire) would ever be employable at $15/hr min wage. They simply refuse to bring that much value to a company through any level of consistency or effort.
 
miketpowell said:
Agree 100% - I'm no hiring veteran with 10+ years of experience or anything but things just seem crazy to me.

On one hand I hear about how hard it is to get a job these days for young people with degrees, the economy sucks and high unemployment and all that. But when I'm trying to hire people in the 40-50k range for entry level positions for recent grads or mid 20s with a little experience it's very hard to find anyone that has what I would call "work ethic and critical thinking skills".

I'm not even talking skills here - the training isn't that hard IF you have the "work ethic and critical thinking skills". But both are seriously lacking.

Similarly we pay $10+ a hour starting in a nice office where you get FULL internet access when not talking calls for phone support people and free snacks in the kitchen. Over the last 2 years we've had to fire about 2/3 of the hires because they cannot show up on time consistently or not call in 1 hour into their shift Monday morning to let us know they are "sick". We are building a base of great people but it's tough. I don't see how any of those people(the ones we had to fire) would ever be employable at $15/hr min wage. They simply refuse to bring that much value to a company through any level of consistency or effort.
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I'm right here :D
 
built said:
I'm right here :D
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No offense but I tried to hire you recall, you disappeared on us.

miketpowell said:
I'm no hiring veteran with 10+ years of experience or anything but things just seem crazy to me.
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That's the thing too, I'm not trying to hiring veterans either. These new technologies are so new and opportunities so great it would be impossible to hire anyone that's familiar with this stuff, so we are looking to train people on top of hiring them. We just need hustlers.
 
CCarter said:
No offense but I tried to hire you recall, you disappeared on us.
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True, I was ashamed of the whole Reddit thing that happened and thought you wouldn't want my help after that
 
I've been stiff arming new work lately to protect my time so I can keep on my own projects. In this case, the hustler is out hustling...

edit: Who is passing up the opportunity to be paid to learn?? That's shit I'd consider..
 
We are a generation of entitled pussies, were everything is given to us, so unless you get rid of the conditioning, you stay an entitled pussy.
Mommy wanted the best for us, but little did she know, that because of that, we are weak manginas.
 
CCarter said:
I got another opportunity of someone wanting to hire a marketer that will be trained on marketing, moved to the city, and even get a nice bonus if the project pulls in some wins at the end of a year
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I recently accepted a position similar to this. I've taken a year out of university and am moving half way around the world to a country that doesn't speak my language. All my friends are in a state of shock whereas it's nothing to me. We are out there, but the reactions I've got from everyone show that we are few and far between.
 
I can't believe the people they DO end up putting in some of these positions too. I've worked with GM's that can't even make a payment on time or seem to be unable to send an email.

Makes me wonder: What do you even DO?
 
animalstyle said:
I can't believe the people they DO end up putting in some of these positions too
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The way I see it is you have 2 classes of people readily available, and the unicorn 3rd if you're willing to hunt for it.

1) Fully capable, but scared
2) Not capable, but not scared

Guess who ends up CEO in the end?

Action always trumps Non-action. One brings SOMETHING, ANYTHING... the other lives in it's head.

I'd rather try and move backwards than do nothing and be stationary.
 
When I was doing client work and looking for various opportunities, oh Man, I'd of killed and I mean KILLED to take any one of those positions.

My biggest client I had for SEO was a big time CEO in charge of several sites for generating leads for solicitors in a specific sector across all of England. Guess what? I was more than capable, but in my head I was scared of failing, but I did it anyway because I knew that I had to test myself and really prove to myself that I was one of the best newcomers at the time.

I did it and I remember sitting down for the first meeting and I was so nervous that I'm surprised I got the position... Which just goes to show that even when you're nervous and you're not at your 100% best for answering questions and giving your opinion that you can still impress your skills if you have them and a decent portfolio (at the time I didn't have any experience of working with anyone of their size).

I was with them for just shy of 9 months and only departed when the two guys who owned it decided to sell up for a few million GBP.

After that I kept taking on projects that made me uncomfortable, like consulting three dedicated SEO agencies in the UK, one of which has won some award or another. I was their go-to problem guy and guess what? I'm not half as good as some of the guys on here... But I worked and I learned damn quick.

My last big project I interviewed for was consulting for a construction company with an annual revenue of just shy of 3 billion GBP a year. I got offered it, I didn't like the guy though and figured that there's probably a reason why a company that big had dupe content across their root and www. sub-domain all over Google. Nightmare to work with is my guess (office politics maybe), but I would have done it in a heartbeat if I thought that it was a good fit in terms of personality.

The other side of the coin was that I was still relatively a newcomer and those big opportunities were few and far between, yet most small businesses would often pass me up for agencies that didn't know their rel=canonical from their rel=nofollow. Either that or if it was a freelancing site then it'd be the cheaper dude half way round the world.

So yeah... If I was in the business of working for others still then I'd literally be all over @CCarter 's Skype right now begging him for that interview even if I know he's a tough crowd and he's more knowledgeable than me, because you've got to take a fucking bet on yourself.

Your client work could dry up tomorrow, and sure these higher end jobs are damn frightening, but if you do well then they aren't going to replace you... Because finding higher end freelancers and employees is just as hard as finding the work / clients.
 
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I feels like there is no shortage of work right now in most of the industries. You have to pretty much be trying to avoid work to actually not be able to find a job. Thus, people think they can get a job anytime, anywhere so they don't really give a shit about sticking to one thing through thick and thin. The going gets tough and they drop out and chill or whatever it is they do. They don't remember 2008 and they seem oblivious to the reality that it's probably going to happen again sooner than later.

I am fortunate enough to be involved in the sector that was probably the hardest hit. Housing/real estate.It was scary but it was also a great learning experience. I was also lucky to make it through but I do remember how people were grateful to work and busted ass if they came upon some work no matter how sucky it was. I remember how it all seemed like a dream because times were so bad in my industry: "How could it be THIS bad?" We went through days like some atavistic crew halfway between life and death not knowing what was coming next. Some months I'd put together just enough to make it. Can you imaging living like that now? Neither can these people blowing off good work!
 
We are coming to fully realize the results of at least 4 or 5 decades and several generations of social engineering. It is engineering designed to promote victimhood, laziness, and a general apathy to all that is great and laudable about truly productive members of society.
 
built said:
True, I was ashamed of the whole Reddit thing that happened and thought you wouldn't want my help after that
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That doesn't make any sense bro. You had a golden opportunity and just because of one hiccup you decide to "dissapear".

Dude fuck that mentality.

You can't always win. If you're working for someone they'll be happy if you can make them very good ROI overall... it does'nt matter too much if you have a bad week or two, or if you make some mistakes... if on the overall you're doing a killer job for them and making their bank accounts sing.

In any case what CCarter is saying is very relevant. When you're new you should absolutely try to work for someone else and learn everything you can. You're being paid to learn.

I mean you're being paid to experiment with other people's money, and learn on the job. Do that, and then strike out on your own and make millions.

I'm currently doing the same working for a brand. Extremely good learning experience and even if they fired me today, with the stuff I've learned from the position and the results I've brought I could probably get a solid income going in another week. Sure my own hustles are now in the background but I'm saving money and when I do decide to go on my own I'll utterly demolish the competition.
 
Pubcon really opened my eyes. People selling basic shit and not one of them knowing how to fix anything.

My agency sent me to the "masters class." It was filled with magic info such as "making sure to have a mobile ready" site or "unique content is always good". I was shocked. These are supposed to be the so called "industry leaders" but 95% of the speakers there are just talking about the same shit from 2007.

It was pretty much like Warrior Forum all got together to sell garbage to each other in real life.

I bust my ass everyday. I go above and beyond for my clients at the agency as well as the 4-5 side clients I have. I am not selling shit, but the reason I charge so much is because SEO to me is super reliant on knowing some HTML/CSS/JS and I have realized not many "SEOs" can even diagnose a page speed problem, let alone fix it.

But the first SEO job I took was for $250 on a site that looked like MSpaint. They are missing out, when you are out there grinding for clients, outreaching, and promoting yourself...... you are learning what you are selling. (Or should be selling.) Fast forward to today, and I do SEO on 2 large helicopter charter companies, a mens lifestyle brand, and 3 cities. All because I was willing to shut the fuck up and learn.

This industry is all about learning, growing, and adapting. Every door you let close is a missed chance to learn something new and expand your knowledge.
 
Island said:
That doesn't make any sense bro. You had a golden opportunity and just because of one hiccup you decide to "dissapear".

Dude fuck that mentality.

You can't always win. If you're working for someone they'll be happy if you can make them very good ROI overall... it does'nt matter too much if you have a bad week or two, or if you make some mistakes... if on the overall you're doing a killer job for them and making their bank accounts sing.

In any case what CCarter is saying is very relevant. When you're new you should absolutely try to work for someone else and learn everything you can. You're being paid to learn.

I mean you're being paid to experiment with other people's money, and learn on the job. Do that, and then strike out on your own and make millions.

I'm currently doing the same working for a brand. Extremely good learning experience and even if they fired me today, with the stuff I've learned from the position and the results I've brought I could probably get a solid income going in another week. Sure my own hustles are now in the background but I'm saving money and when I do decide to go on my own I'll utterly demolish the competition.
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I mean at the time I thought it was the end of the world because my account got called out in a subreddit and @CCarter site had been named too.
When I look back now, yeah it was a fuck up but I learnt from it and I won't let anything like that happen again.

But wasting that opportunity is one of the biggest regrets I have
 
built said:
But wasting that opportunity is one of the biggest regrets I have
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Yeah, you goofed, but at the same you performed damage control, which is crucial. When you begin walking the middle path, a lot of these issues fall away. Too gung-ho is as bad as nothing at all.
 
animalstyle said:
I've been stiff arming new work lately to protect my time so I can keep on my own projects. In this case, the hustler is out hustling...

edit: Who is passing up the opportunity to be paid to learn?? That's shit I'd consider..
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We literally just let someone go 2 weeks ago who we paid for 2 straight weeks prior to that to literally read, ask questions, and watch over the shoulder of our in-house folks... one day he didn't show up, the next day he just sat around with his dick in his hand; finished reading what he was asked to - and then when asked to give the learning a try, assigned it to another team member??

We're now in the process of launching a completely free, open learning community where anyone who wants to can jump in and get access to all the stuff our team is reading and doing - and if they feel like it, put their hand up and ask for work... no idea if it's going to work, but at this point I'm frustrated enough that I needed to build something more passive to recruit talent, it's just too frustrating to keep being disappointed when you put in so much of your own time.
 
But... if it's as hard for you, it must be as hard for others. So there is pain there, and thus money. How could you turn this into money? Maybe starting an elance / The League hybrid, whereby you gather a well-vetted, competent network of men, many gathered by word of mouth (with a signing bonus and an assurance that "the work is more abundant than could possibly be filled"). They fill their available times into your system, you assign their rate based on observed competence, you take your cut, you ball hard.

Just the other day I was talking to a guy who works for a company in a 0% tax haven paying it's developers in the $50 to $70 region. He says he only works a few hours a day and loves it. He was specialized in some way that I forget, but I'm guessing he was well vetted too, he says he found it through contacts and being invited.
 
I feel like I've put some blinders on and gave the mental middle finger to anything going on around me to focus on my projects ONLY. Since doing that I have this small feeling I am missing some really important opportunities I could say yes to. I am hungry to learn, my projects will teach me, an opportunity to get paid to learn will teach me.

I am fully committed to work on MY stuff for the entirety of 2016. So much that I have to ignore what's passing by as to not break focus. Is it silly to be intentionally blind to the other opportunities around me in order to see my projects get all of my attention and energy? Is this a case of the grass always being greener? The self doubt can be strong...
 
I heard nothing of these myself or in any groups/circles I'm around with plenty of good workers/competent guys to take on work. So.. perhaps you are in the wrong circles or barking up the wrong trees so to speak :smile: But yea a lot of the "SEO's" aren't "hustling" anymore - that's cus shit got a bit real lately. Survival of the fittest bros
 
I'm really confused by the first part. $5k is obviously plenty of budget to do a lot in SEO so I have no idea who you approached or who turned you down? My company does and has always done white label work for a whole bunch of agencies so I've got a good idea what pricing looks like across a fair chunk of the market so if you want (confidentially of course) to share some of the project spec (without client details) with me I'll give you an honest opinion as to whether it's too low to attract certain types of agency/professional that do that work or too high to attract the people who know they can't deliver $5k value with their capacity/knowledge, or even if it would be better split between different contractors.

You'll find that as the market got tougher, us SEO types (not that it's the main thing I identify as these days since we offer a range of services) have specialised a lot. There are a lot of projects I wouldn't take on, not because I don't want another $5k/mo in billings, just if it isn't one of the areas our team can deliver exceptional service in, though I'd usually extend someone the courtesy of a referral to someone they can trust, or that I partner with when a project requires those parts of the puzzle.
 
What if someone have skills, experience etc. but he just won't trade them for $5000/M (or whatever...) account? Why should he? If that person has skills (some skills), and actually can get things done, why he or she should bother working for someone else? I don't see anything strange here.

I know that not everyone wants to be a bus owner etc. but in this SEO world, if someone can do a bit more than just links from directories, then that person sooner or later will (probably) try and monetize his/her own websites.

Maybe that's why you have a hard time finding that decent person?

When it comes to a new guy, who doesn't want to get paid for learning etc., I don't understand this kind of behaviour also. Who knows, maybe too many people believe they can go "startup" way and one day become millionaires? Actually, looking at how much $ is wasted on startups I think that's one of the easiest ways to become a millionaire these days :smile: (for some people).

Another thing could be this:

By 2006 CEOs made 400 times more than average workers—a gap 20 times bigger than it was in 1965 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_compensation_in_the_United_States
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Many people understand that they are almost like Chinese workers who have worked for a bowl of rice (years ago), and so they don't like it at all. You can't blame them.

You know, $1M in 2016 isn't the same what $1M in 90's was. I think the problem is not only in potential employees and their expectations, it's in employers as well.

I'm getting a lot of job offers from job sites (not from employers), they want me to apply. Daily about 10 offers. I'm not even checking it anymore, it's a fucking rubbish and waste of my time. Don't get me wrong, $5000 sound great, especially like for one account. Few months ago I would get myself killed for this kind of job.

But most of the jobs out there is rubbish, and most of the employers want to pay in bowls of rice per month. So, if they want to pay third world salaries, let them employ third world workers. And this is what is happening right now anyway.

Anyway...

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P.S Finally f**** DNS is working, I can get back to my lovely site :D
 
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